Milling the Whizzer head

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by Quenton Guenther, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I have received many requests about "milling" the NE Whizzer head, and to save time I will post the requested information here. If I have located this in the wrong area, please move it for me, and excuse me if wrong. The following is a typical request and I will answer it to the benifit of all.

    "Hi Quenton, could you give me some more info on milling my 2007 NE5 head. Does the head come off without removing the motor from the bike? Mill it
    .060" or .070"? I read in one of your other posts to remove some washers from head bolts, permenatly? How do I shorten the head bolts 1/8", are the threads long enough as is after shortening? What is the tork specks when reinstalling the head bolts, pattern and tightness? How can I get a copper head gasket and how much does it cost? Is all this as simple as it sounds? Remove head only nothing else to take apart, modify bolts and head reasemble. I would do the remove and reinstall, local engine machine shop would do the milling, hopefully, haven't ask yet.
    Thanks for any more help with this,
    The motor doesn't have to be removed, however it is easier and in most cases the needed torque wrench won't clear the frame when re-installing the head.
    Mill the NE head .070" and use a copper head gasket.
    Because the head is not as thick after it is milled, several of the head bolts will be too LONG, and will need to be shortened. I purchased several 8 MM nuts which I thread on the bolts [1 each] prior to cutting the bolt. I then cut aprrox. 3/16" off each bolt, I use a dremel tool with a cutting wheel [a hacksaw will also work but takes longer], I then grind the very edge of the threads at a slight angle so that it will start easily. Next I remove the nut, because this helps align the threads on the bolt so that it will start easily during assembly.
    One of the "What were they thinking?" comments concerns the stock head bolt washer arrangement. I remove the very small thin washer affixed to the 8 MM bolts with a pair of small wire cutters, next I place the supplied lock washer in a bag for future use on something else. At this point I only have the thich washer left to install under each 8 MM head bolt. During research & testing I discovered the lock washer becomming useless after it had been hot several time [looses it's spring], having several washer against each other defeats the purpose and often allows the head bolts to work loose. And of course I have never seen any head bolts on anything motor that used more than a single thick washer [duh].
    The torque specs. are 180 INCH pounds on the 8 MM head bolts, and 210 INCH pounds. Time for a good story! Several times I have received calls telling me they tightened the head bolt to 75 pounds, and someting didn't seem right, and furthermore their torque wrench didin't go past 100, so how could they torque the bolts to 180, etc. I was amazed the bolts didn't snap or strip because they were using a FOOT pound torque wrench and 75 Foot pounds equals 900 inch pounds! If you don't have an inch pound torque wrench [many don't] simply divide the number by 12. In other words the 180 inch pounds would be 15 FOOT pounds, and the 210 inch pounds would translate to 17.5 Foot pounds. It is better if possible to use an inch pound wrench because it is easier to end up with a more acurrate torque setting.
    I will attempt to simplify the correct tightening process. First I will attempt to number the bolts and then cover the sequence. Looking at the head from the front of the bike [chain side of bike on your left] call the top left #1, the center top #2, the right top #3, the left 10 MM bolt #4, the right 10 MM #5, the center left #6 the center right #7, the bottom left #8, and the bottom right #9. Here goes #4, #5, #6, #7, #1, #3, #8, #9, & #2. Start at 140 inch pounds on all bolts, then repeat at 165 inch pounds, then 180 inch pounds, then finish at 210 inch pounds on the two 10 MM bolts [#4 & #5].
    Copper head gaskets are available through any Authorized Whizzer dealer, if you can't locate a local dealer, then I have them for $10.00 each.
    It is simple to do, and remember the Whizzer motor is easier to work on than a lawn mower motor. The head is the only part that needs to removed & re-installed, but if using the copper head gasket it can be re-used over & over, however the stock steel gasket is a ONE time event.
    Hope this helps everyone, please let me know with comments! And if more information is needed, just ask.
    Sorry got to go for now, cause my new Ambassador is sitting in the parts room waiting for me to assemble and ride [someone has to do it]
    Have fun,
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008

  2. smitty

    smitty Guest

    I have a question; Do the head bolts ever need to be re-torqued?
  3. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Smitty, I usaully re-check them after the first 100 miles. Very seldom do they change, but it never hurts to check. Be sure to only check when the motor is cold.
  4. uncle_punk13

    uncle_punk13 Guest

    Good one here Quenton! Gotta agree with ya on the "what were they thinking" LOL Have fun with the ambassador...
  5. Majicfingers@1

    Majicfingers@1 New Member

    Need specs on ne5 whizzer engine such as air gap on flywheel an stator head toque sequence in inch lbs
  6. Majicfingers@1

    Majicfingers@1 New Member

    Got me a bad engine from whizzerpaul and joe lin now have to rebuild only had 162 miles on new engine flushed that money down the hole got told I probley assembled it wrong when it came preassembled lol
  7. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor


    Not to worry as I will gladly help you make the motor correct and dependable. Sadly the motors & kits from Joe Lin are mostly left over parts from his contract to make Whizzers for Whizzer USA. Most of the parts were from the final production of the Ambassador II and the NE-r. The motors have been converted from the CVT drive system to the basic automatic clutch. Of course the automatic clutch is the first item you should throw in the nearest trash can, as it truly belongs in the trash. We designed an American made auto clutch for both new edition and vintage Whizzers, however we having trouble keeping up with the demand. If I can find the time I plan to rebuild a bunch of automatic clutches used on the 2005 to 2008 models and will offer them for the same price as the current version from Taiwan.
    If you want to contact me via phone, email me for my cell number

    Most urgent upgrade is the cylinder and the head. The design of the head is unbelievable, but correctable. The head is nick named "Block head" because it is mostly a big block of aluminum with very few cooling fins. Mill head .065" and run a 1/4" end mill between the existing fins to deepen them [make them taller]. Also run end mill to create addition fins, being carefull to avoid the rear corners of the head as it is thin near the valve pockets. These mods will lower the operating temp almost 75 degrees, and will almost double the power. Cylinder most likely has deep tooling marks and may be warped, solution is to remove valves and work top of cylinder level on a flat surface affixed with sand paper. You will also need to replace the head gasket as it doesn't match the combustion chamber [we have American made copper gaskets that can be made to exactly match the combustion chamber for more power and better cooling]. Also need to open side cover and set valve timing correctly ONE tooth advanced, not 2 or 3 as suggested from Taiwan.

    If you need more information or more details just contact me.

    Have fun,
  8. Majicfingers@1

    Majicfingers@1 New Member

    Thank you sir for that information i have the manual clutch which im happy with need a new main pulley but thatll happen im waiting on a new cylinder from whizzerpaul who i will never deal with again blamed me for the trouble im having with this pos engine but hes joes best dealer lol i like my 99 whizzer an if i have to put a real motorbike engine on to get right i will but i want to keep it with a whizzer engine finding specs on this engine is impossible like flywheel an stator air gap i already have toque specs that you listed thank you for posting that information i was told by whizzerpaul these forums were a joke ya thats why hes a member trolling is what hes doing a wanna be is what he is waiting on my inch lb toque wrench to get to me along with the new cylinder im happy keepin it stock 40 45 mph is fast enough on a bicycle is fast enough for me.
  9. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Be sure to re-torque head bolts at 50 miles and 100 miles and make sure motor is cold.

    The new edition Whizzer motors can be upgraded for durability, as I have several with well over 10,000 miles logged on them. I think my 99 has close to 20,000 miles as the motor hasn't be touched since late 2004.

    Have fun,
  10. Majicfingers@1

    Majicfingers@1 New Member

    all of this information is great how about roller lifters mine work better then any mushroom lifters out there increase hp easy to machine get the Bridgeport out .
  11. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Roller lifters!!! More info please!
    Got me a 1998 WC-1, number 07 Much has changed since then. sorry to hear about today's stuff.
    This one will stay all WC-1, with some upgrades.

    Ray 20160911_120235.jpg 20160911_120235.jpg 20160730_110744.jpg 2014-11-25 16.01.02.jpg 20160911_141132.jpg 20160911_145612.jpg
  12. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    I forgot, how you doing with your cam?

    Ray 20160821_133736.jpg
  13. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Wish I had taken pictures of the Roller lifters and the "Box Car" cam I ran for a short time. Lifters were given away, but think I may still have the camshaft somewhere. If interested I will find it and post pictures. I had to abandon the project as they caused valve float way too early [just over 6500]. In order to make my motors hit serious RPMs I had to reduce the valve train weight. My lifter diameter is .2177" and valve stem O.D. is .215" [Toyota Quad valves]. The valves are super light weight and have really thin contact area. I had to increase the valve spring pressure to reach higher RPMs, and simply used progressive springs with 1/8" spacer between spring and guide.

    Have fun,
  14. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    I have a whizzer cam,Copied From a wicked Crocker motorcycle cam,just need me some roller lifters. Quenton don't got none.
    Hopefully the the magicfingers can Shed some light.
    I tell you this cam is wicked!

  15. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Set I had was simply a stock set with a section notched out for roller [wheel], and a pin pressed across to act as axle for the roller and guide pin. The guide pins are needed to stop them from turning [rollers don't work well sideways] in the lifter bores. The roller lifters allow using some crazy camshaft configurations on lift, duration, lobe centers, and overlap.
    Any pictures of your modified camshaft?

    Have fun,
  16. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Pictures, haven't I given up the most already? should keep you guys busy for awhile no? Tried cutting the cam gear yet? hehehe, post pic when you do, won't be easy. but well worth it!
    Tomorrow we start on my rollers, cut racie's cams, work some cylinders.
    Ask racie if he wants to show his, sent it to him about a 1 1/2 year ago.

  17. Majicfingers@1

    Majicfingers@1 New Member

    Trying to figure out why Lee will answer on here but won't reply to any of its/his emails and 20000 miles with no service uhm thats funny guess youd have to be there
  18. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I always answer my personal emails

    Only have limited time to post information on various websites.

    Lots of information in the Whizzer Newsletter. Quenton's Corner in newsletter covers new edition Whizzers
    Have fun,