My New Honda Schwinn Build

[Irish John]

Day 8 on the Fosscati FG4 Indian Pacific

Today I cut the mudguard with a hacksaw to let the chain pass. Filed it smooth and painted it black to match the original. Also greased the gearbox.
I think I should maybe have mounted the engine a bit further forward cos the gap between the drive sprocket freewheel and the seat tube isn't wide enough to get a chain through without breaking the chain each time it needs to be put on. I could move the engine forward by iunbolting it and turning the tray around but that would be over a days work cos of the way I have nuts on all the bolts so I won't be doing that. The mere thought of it fills me with dread.
The chain will be quite short and I don't know how that will affect the power transmission to the rear wheel. If the sprockets don't get a really good line I might have to remount the whole thing to give more length but I've found that the motor always has to go as far as possible to the drive side to get the best line. I wonder why the tray slots go so far to the right when nobody could use them in that positon. When I get the mudguard back on I'll be able to see hoe the alignment is. That will be tomorrow.
Every time I remove the back wheel it takes ages to get the plastic Nexus 7 hub clips to go back into their slots. Apparently it is a well known nightmare known to all owners of Shimano 7 & * speed internal hubs. I hate the coaster brake slightly more than I used to which I thought was impossible to exceed on the hatred scale. The front V-brakes on the springer forks squal like mad and I can't figure out why. Trials will be postponed til Tuesday now.

 

[Irish John]

Day 9 on the Fosscati FG4 Indian Pacific

Today I got the mudguard back on which is not an easy job and really takes 2 people. I cut the chain to fit the bike and got the seal back on the Nexus 7 hub which also wasn't easy. Now the gears won't work and hub gears aren't my forte. I like how the chain doesn't come off on a hub gear as easily as it comes off a derailleur when you are cycling but if I'm going to have this sort of problem every time I take off a back wheel I will very soon regret getting a Schwinn with a Shimano geared hub.
The coaster brake holding nut was hitting the chain but I managed to move it a bit to get clearance. The mudguard cutting job seems to have been accurate and the chain does indeed pass freely.
I sealed the exhaust gaskets and loctited the exhaust bolts and now all that remains is connecting the throttle, clutch, tank and lights etc and I'm ready to roll. Haven't quite figured out how to fix a rear light yet. The springer forks make a difference and with the motor so far back I notice she is lighter up front which is probably a good thing.
Here are some pics of the job so far. The decals come late next week so I'm excited about those. The print run for screen printing has to be fairly large and is therefore not cheap but sticking with white on tranparent sticky has kept the price down a bit. Colour would have been much dearer.
I'm slowly getting there.

 

[Gary P]

Thanks for the pics. A picture is better than a thousand words. I see these stories and pictures and my youth is reborn. When a good solution to the energy problem is discovered, it sure won't be from the "establishment" It will be from inovative ideas from folks like I see posting hear and by try it you will like it techniques.

Gary P from Springfield Mo.

 

[Irish John]

Day 10 on the Fosscati FG4 Indian Pacific

Today I sort of finished the bike and apart from connecting the kill switch I decided to take it for a run. I could not get the gears to work because they are incredibly complicated and even my friend from the local bike shop couldn't get the Shimano hub gears to go right. and he has a Nexus 8 spd himself. We spent 2 hours trying. If I ever get a puncture and have to remove the tyre it's an impossible job all over again. I'll take it into the bike shop on Tuesday and they'll do it and show me how but I don't think there is a simple easy way. There is only one article about this on Google if you type in Shimano 7 or 8 speed hubs - that basically tells people it is a near impossible task.. All people thinking of buying multi geared Shimano hubs would be advised to think again.
The engine started first pull and it runs much sweeter than the HS - noticeably sweeter by a country mile. I'm using the short stock exhaust and I drilled a hole in the bottom but the motor sounds like a bigger car. So do the big Honda motorbikes though. That exhaust does have a baffle in it contrary to what I wrote somewhere else on this forum. Sorry about that.
I've bought 20 powerful earth magnets that exactly fit the top of the oil plug nut to magnetise the plug and they never have to come off cos the plug has a circular indentation that fits the magnet like a gove. They are hard to get off cos the magnets are very powerful.
I rigged up a rear light using bits and pieces from other light kits and I've got twin halogens on the front. I only have first gear so I can't pedal uphill until the speed drops to about 8 km\hr. With a 48T sprocket, the exact same as my other Grubee/HS Schwinn, I noticed one obvious thing immediately. The Honda pulls harder than the HuaSheng which accounts for the disparity I've read on this forum between Hondas and HS engines. The HS growls and makes more noise than the Honda and has a throatier sound but the Honda has more pull and smoother mechanical noises. I can't tell the top speed cos my speedo wasn't close enough to the magnet to read correctly and when I fixed it it was dark and I couldn't see the speedo. I am almost certain that the Honda gets an extra 5 mph but I'll know more by tomorrow.
I am thrilled with the motor but the Schwinn D7 cruiser is a dog of a bike even though I like the springer forks a lot.
The coaster brake is close to useless as a brake. It is time that coaster brakes were banned because they are worse than those terrible caliper brakes you get on $50 KMart bikes. They will slow you down but there is no way they should ever be classed as a brake. Thank God I have my front V-brakes and they are very nearly as good as a manually operated disc.
My chain is slapping the cut away mudguard and I will have to cut away more of the steel fender to fix it. That's disappointing cos I measured it very carefully but the chain does move up and down when decellerating from speed. That's because those sprockets are not totally circular as I noticed when I scanned one and imported it into CAD to draw my modifications. Pulling away it's tight on top and OK except on big bumps.
Well that's my story so far and my next post will be late next week with a further report on the sea trials and the decals. I will write to my member of parliament this week and ask him to enact legislation that all bikes sold with coaster brakes must have V-brake bosses front and rear. I hate coasters with a passion.

 

[HoughMade]

Great work!

I knew you would like that engine. Your bike looks great! I have been following this thread and some of the issues about the mounting tray, I have dealt with.

Of course, I replaced the 4 studs that mount the tray to the bike with quality pieces, but mine are still 6mm, no problems though. I retapped the side bolts (tray to aluminum blocks) to 7mm, not much bigger, but it makes a difference. I run with a large washer, a lock washer and blue loctite. I could not use studs there because I am using the standard width, but short crank that clears the bolt heads by less than 3/8" on each side.

Can't wait to see you top speed numbers to see if they are around mine- I would trust yours more tha my own as i am using a dicey analog speedo for the look.

 

[Irish John]

Honda is noticeably faster than HuaSheng

Yes HoughMade, I've been thinking a lot about your bike whilst building this one. If you ever change to a Shimano 7 0r 8 speed I can supply you the clamping gear. I took the lazy way out on the throttle controll & slotted an HS carby in instead. When the motor first started up I could hear the difference - a noise of finely engineered parts that is noticeably smoother than the more growling and noisier HS. The HS is good though - just that the Honda is quite a lot better. I don't think the Honda revs higher but it pulls maybe 15% better at low revs. My top speed so far is 55 km\hr on the flat. My HS will do 55km\hr but it took 1800 kms to get it to loosen up and run fast. The Honda at 55 feels better than the HS - less vibration and worry about noise. The Schwinn D7 is a steel bike and heavier than the Alloy 7 by quite a bit so the extra speed is more surprising. It's running in but I think it will cruise comfortably at 50 - 52 km\hr with room to spare. The HS cruises comfortably at 45 - 48 km\hr. My speedo should be accurate cos I measured the tyre exactly with me on it although it's digital and takes a while to report back with the speed changes. After 1500 kms I think the Honda will gain a bit of speed. In case you haven't already got an old style speedo with a needle and dial they can be bought from Bike World USA for $12. They even have ones in Km\hr which is rare for America. I'm sure you know the place but the URL is:
http://www.amazon.com/Torker-Metric-Speedometer-Cable-Black/dp/B0012L1EII
See ya in the pits!

 

[HoughMade]

Here is my speedo- mounted in the headlight...of course, it's "Ford Gray" now.

I fear I may be over-revving my engine on top speed runs...but I seldom make those runs now...seldom, not never.

 

[Irish John]

Honda definitely superior to HuaSheng

Today I was riding the Fosscati FG4 Indian Pacific with it's Honda\Grubee mounted on the Schwinn D7 bike for some big distances over roads that I have ridden hundreds of times on the HS\Grubee mounted on the Schwinn Alloy Seven and I can definitely confirm that the Honda is very noticeably more powerful than the HS. The D7 is considerably heavier than the Alloy7 cos it's steel frame with colossal steel fenders but it still has a lot more low end torque and high end speed and there is no loud rattle from the valve rockers like I get on the HS. These are hilly country roads with very little traffic and I am now faster than some cars over the same conditions. On the winding hills that I used to pedal quite hard I hardly have to pedal at all. On hills that the HS struggled to maintain 30 km\hr the Honda will reach 40 km\hr. A 48T sprocket is perfect for this bike and I wouldn't go one tooth up or down. The HS really needs a 50T and possibly a 52T. This bike just amazes me it is so fast and smooth and sounds a bit like a car. The bumps have been removed thanks to the springer forks and suspension seat post. I no longer think the D7 is such a dog of a bike mainly because I discovered how to assemble the Nexus 7 spd hub the easy way. For those who may have one of these hubs the Shimano instructions do not state one very very important thing and that is that when you try to get the casette joint fixing ring back in place to secure the gear assembly you MUST BE IN 1st GEAR. Shimano don't tell you this on their installation manual so I've amended the manual and attach a copy below.
The genious at my local bike store found this out for himself so I thought I'd pass it on. Without this knowledge a Nexus 7 or 8 spd hub is not much fun especially if you have to take the rear wheel off for any reason.
Anyway the 44T chainring on my new one piece crank (I bought 5 from Bicycle-Engines.Com cos all I'm buying from here on is the engine tray and Grubee gearboxes and for the time being the tanks) means that with the 7 spd hub I can pedal up to much faster speeds. I've now got a good brass pet cock and good in-line on\off valve so no more soft alloy Chinese junk pet cocks to snap off and spew petrol straight onto a hot engine. The tank problem I haven't yet solved but I'm looking at the Honda Z50 kids bike tanks which may be adaptable for a bike. I'm also looking at getting a tank exactly like the kit ones properly made elsewhere in Asia. I just got sick of trying to get what I required from the kit suppliers but if Bicycle-Engines.Com in Montana can't supply me a reduced kit with only the tray, gearbox & tank I may be in ***** street and have to buy all the rest of the junk that comes with the kit which I resent having to pay for. On the other hand my brother has a factory in China and could probably help me get what I really want by whatever other method I need to go to. I'm that cross about the quality that if I can't get what I want as aftermarket parts I'm tempted to try getting my own gearboxes and trays made in India. The tray would be easy to improve beyond any similarity to what was patented but the gearbox would be less so but I reckon I know people who could design a better one that looked different enough to avoid any patent infringements.
The quality of the recent batch of centrifugal clutches is so disgraceful that they deserve to be ripped off at their own game.
Anyway I'm heartily sick of the quality I've been getting but if anyone has any doubts about the Honda compared to the HS I can tell you that although the HS is a good engine (cos it was designed by Honda) and is very good value, the Honda GXH 50 is a different motor altogether - smoother, quieter, gutsier at low end and high end and has the potential to cause serious infringements of the law governing motorised bicycles if ridden hard.
My next build will be a Honda/Grubee on a Felt Heritage Cruiser. That is an alloy bike with springer forks and front and rear linear pull V-brakes (thankfully no coaster kiddy brake). It has 7 speed derailleur gears and superwide double walled 50mm alloy rims so it might have chain problems and even hub flange\sprocket problems but it will be light and fast and supremely comfortable with a longer wheelbase than the Schwinn. The Schwinn is supremely comfy too I must say.
The Felt\Honda will be chistened the Fosscati FG4 "Billinudgel Bullet" and I'll probably get fat riding it cos there won't be much for me to do anymore. I'll try the Hoot|HS out soon on a Felt Heritage but I need to get a smaller sprocket than the 44T it came with. Don't know where to get those cos nobody in Australia has them. I've cut a new engine key for it with a wide bottom for the shaft and a narrow top for the disgracefully made clutch.
The new Hoot will fit on a Honda as well as an HS but I reckon the Honda would pull it to bits.
If you live in the US you'd be mad not to buy a Honda at the price they charge but down here the best price I can get is $485. Nevertheless I'm not disappointed with the resulting performance increase and the HS will never feel the same again.
There is one thing I need to do to verify that it really is the Honda engine that is giving me the improved power and that is try the HS\Grubee with the shorter exhaust that I'm using with the Honda cos I've always had a full length exhaust on the HS.

 

[HoughMade]

Great report! Keep us posted. All I have ever used in the short exhaust, so that's all I know.

 

[Irish John]

Great report! Keep us posted. All I have ever used in the short exhaust, so that's all I know.

Just imported a picture of the Felt Heritage into AutoCAD and tried to scale it from the wheel being 26". It's the most accurate way I could think of and the dimensions I got at scaling it 1 to 1 arenot good for fitting a motor into the frame. The attached PDF shows my measurements and I hope they are wrong cos I'm in trouble if I'm right. There are no Felt Heritages in Australia for me to measure and Felt don't publish the frame geometry but waste most of their web pages with silly rhyming poems about their bikes. I'll have to call their HQ in Germany and see if they'll give me the measurements. Getting service from Bike suppliers is not an easy task made even harder these days by the fact that so many of our crack troops are away in Timor, Afghanistan & Iraq when the real enemy is hiding in the bicycle and motorised kit suppliers right here amongst us.
Here is my guestimate of the critical Felt Heritge dimensions where they matter. If anyone can fill me in with accurate ones I'll give them something nice from my workshop.