CVT NE-R ,CVT belt size ?

Discussion in 'Transmission / Drivetrain' started by RUSSELL45, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    I have been looking here for a post concerning belt replacement for 2008 NE-R CVT belt. I thought the GURU of the outer banks had talked about this, but can not find that post. Quenton said he used Gates belts from Car Quest but they are having trouble crossing the metric number. I'm kinda hoping someone has found a belt that is close enough to adjust in. The main problem seems to be the belt pitch. Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciatedddd! Thanks, Russell :whistling:
     

  2. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    I have found a belt @ Napa that looks like it will work. It's a Gates powerlink, PL20508. The dimensions seem to be the same. Also, the NGK IRIDIUM plug with 1/2" threads is NGK CR7HIX, opposed to the CR7EIX with longer threads. Both plugs have 10mm threads. Hopefully this will help someone else from spending a ton of time doing research. First question:what type of vehicle? Second question: What to heck is a Whizzer? Third question: Have you tried China yet? Don't ya just luv-it? Ha!
     
  3. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Thanks for the info RUSSELL45. did your primer belt go bad? and are you still using the carb that came with your NE-R. i've gone from the 16mm, 18+mm from the wc-1, 20mm and now the 22mm carb.

    Thanks,
    Ray
     
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  4. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    Good morning Ray. A few answers to your questions, first, my front belt wore enough to cause it to slip when trying to start a cold engine. I moved the engine forward to tighten belt but with it this tight, it does not utilize all of the pullies surface at higher rpm, so I lose on top end. If that makes any sense to ya. The belt # I gave you was a NAPA belt,but same # as Gates. I'm still running the OEM 16mm carb. Here in Ft.collins, Co, I'm about 5400+ft. of altitude. I'm presently running a #80 stock jet, with needle clip in second notch from top. Got a brownish grey plug and engine purrs with these settings. I have adjusted valves, replaces compression release with 10mm bolt per Quentions instructions. Just been enjoying the ride here lately. In the very near future, plan to put engine on the bench. Plans include, cylinder porting and decking, cureing. Shaveing head. Haven't decided on how much so far. Mostly depends on type of head gasket I use. Hopefully will be able to cut one from copper sheet that will fit the compression chamber closely. Would like to find a 22mm carb also, but this 16mm carb is really a sweet unit. A ne5 head would be a nice find too. I'm not looking for a hotrod, just a nice dependable ride my grand children will get a chance to ride someday. The whizzer experiance should always be shared and enjoyed. After the tear-down, I'll give Quenton a buzz and make a game plan from there. I still need a tach also if you come across one.
    Also, a quick note on jetting. I build quite a few bikes, quadricycles and even a small jeep with bike parts, for my granddaughter. I use the GT50 pocket rocket engine such as the one Duane sells @ THATSDAX, and they are picky about jetting. Rather than trying to find jets, I solder up jet opening and drill new jet hole. I enlarge hole until happy with the way they run and spark plug has the color I'm looking for. Skill level is moderate if confidence level is above average. Good luck, have questions, let me know. Later gator_____ Russell
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  5. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Hi Russell, if you like you can give whizzerusa a call 1- 877-944-9937, they will have your tach and other ne-r parts. they also have some really good prices too.
    Maybe you call keep us posted about your belt adjustment too.
    I let the primary belt stick out 1/16"- 1/8" out of the secondary clutch.
    I think the trick is not to get the belt to tight or it will burn on the clutch hub.
    Using the 22mm carb will give you more power for sure. i'll keep a look out for one.

    Thanks,
    Ray
     

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  6. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Hi Russell, have you had any time with your NE-R?

    Ray
     
  7. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    Ray, I have tried to answer you questions but when I try to post, every thing goes blank. I'm still trying. I'm better with engines than computers. THANKS again, Russell
     
  8. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    Here goes again Ray, yes I have changed and adjusted belt. I hear so much negative input on the CVT, when this thing is adjusted right, I like it. I have installed iridium plug rechecked valve lash and performed spring clean-up on my 16mm carb. Cyl. and head work planned for near future. After this I will look for at least a 22mm carb. It's hard to tear one down in the summer when they crank on second try and purr so smoothly. Too much fun to ride !! Another quick question, how do you become a member on this forum? Is there a waiting period for newbies? Once again, THANKS for all your help, It's truly appreciated. Russell in Colorado---
     
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  9. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Hi RUSSELL, I'm pretty sure that you are a member, or you wouldn't be able to post.
    when you sign on put a check mark in the box where is says remember me? under your sign in name, that way you can take your time when you are posting.
    I also like the CVT. here's a link to that 22mm
    carb,www.motopartsmax.com/index.php/main_page/product_info/products_id/518/cpath/280_13
    I've change my compression release mount that goes to the exhaust elbow for the vintage one because it mounts to the head bolt, which lines up with the compression release perfect. Quenton had done this to Terry's Toy and made a hole lot of sense. Thanks for the post and all your help as well. not a lot of info for the NE-R.
    some pics too.

    Ray
     

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  10. Racie35

    Racie35 Member

    are those my bags on the back Ray?
     
  11. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    Good morning Ray, love the pictures of your NE-R. I'll post some of mine first chance. Thanks for the link to motopartsmax. While surfing last week, I also found this same site, and ordered the PZ20 carburetor and gasket set. It seems real similar to the stock 16mm so for $29.95, I am going to give it a shot. There is one on e-bay just like it for $55.00. I think we found his supplier. Yesterday I pulled the head for the first time ever. Milled head .020 and cleaned and polished chamber. Last year I replaced comp. rel in head with a 10mm bolt, and yesterday machined it to be flush inside. Removed valve block screws and reworked them to be flush. My copper head gasket had a crossover through the combustion chamber,"?" this seemed disruptive to me so I trimmed it out of the way, we'll see what happens. All of my intake passages are 20mm, so I'm thinking this little PZ20 will work fine until this winter when I tear engine down for serious work. It's funny how much just a little head work and carbon removal can change performance. Been awhile since I didn't have to peddle to take off. New carb. should help, also. Really nice to get your input on NE-R's. Did you happen to notice motopartsmax also carry all the GY6 parts which are the same as on the NE-R's, CVT. I didn't know they were the same until I read one of Quenton's old posts. Good stuff here in this forum, free for the looking.

    THANKS AGAIN
    Russell------
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  12. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    I keep forgetting that the saddlebags are there, my first ones.... I call them racey:)

    Ray
     
  13. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Sorry for the long delay,I did use the PZ20 carb, i couldn't get it to idle by its self. it ran OK, so, then i put the 22mm carb just to see if there was some difference, for me it's perfect, main jet is a #85. for the price how can you go wrong. plus there about 12 miles from me, big plus for sure not having to pay for shipping.

    you've done alot more to the motor than i have, i'll be following your examples, thanks, i'll probably do .060 to the head.
    really not a whole lot more needed, i really like this CVT too.

    I'll keep you inform of what more i do, maybe you can do the same.
    i'm gonna do some thermal barrier coating ( heat coating) also, the piston only has about .005 skirt clearance, really not enough. this will drop the temp down to about 275 degrees from 475 plus degrees.

    Ray
     
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  14. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    Good Morning Ray. Just a few updates on my NER. The PZ20 carb was set up for a 50cc-100cc engine. I changed the pilot/slow jet out to a #35 and drilled main jet out to about 83.8. Done, ran great, but not good enough!! After reworking head bolts (washers and cut shorter), head gasket and a .020" mill job, still had a gasket leak. Silly me, tried to save a buck. Started over with a .070" head mill, decked cylinder, polished piston and head inside and out! Mild exhaust porting, matched my intake from carb to intake valve (22mm), bought a 22mm Kiehin carb, jetted pilot/slow jet to #35, Main jet to a # 95(JETS R US IN MO),screwed in a new NGK CR7HIX (iridium 1/2" threads) plug. Bought American maid cap screws and thick washers(25mm over exhaust port and 30mm for other 8 and 10mm screws) torqued all to 185 and 210 inch lbs. and fired her up (first try). Wallah!! Running with traffic! CVT is not operating full range. I thought because of low power, now, no longer a problem. After opening rear driven clutch/pulley, found a torque spring almost twice as long as a stock one. As I said in a earlier post, after a lot of research, found this CVT to be really similar to a GY6 or QMB139 skooter system, except for the way oversized torque spring? My thought was another attempt to prevent the NER from exceeding 30mph! I can reach about 43mph @ 5400 feet of altitude here in Colorado without a full range of the CVT. I have ordered new parts for variator and new clutch springs and new torque spring (all stock for a 50cc GY6). From here I will start from scratch and make this big heavy beast run like it should. After I find the right combination, will probably upgrade to either Hoca or Dr. Pulley parts). I don't except the theory it's the redheaded stepchild, but instead, the last and top of the line it was supposed to be! Just saying, but that's only my opinion. Like any new Whizzer, she just needs some(American) adjustments. Thinking about buying another NER that was purchased same time as mine, still in it's shipping crate. I'll let ya know how my CVT test turn out. Lator Gator!! Russell in Co.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  15. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    The 22mm carb has work really good for me too. i still need to pull off the top end and see whats in there, do head reworking. Russell you've got a lot done. one thing about the CVT there needs to be some belt deflection, if to tight belt will burn, if to loose it will allow the primary clutch to up-shift faster then the secondary clutch casing a low end bog and poor performance.
    my belt deflection is set about 3/4", meaning that i lay a straight edge on the belt and measure the distance between the straight edge and the belt between the to two clutches.
    i also like a polished piston too. will be looking forward to hearing about your work with the CVT.

    Thanks Russell!!

    Ray
     

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  16. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    I research several cvt sites and install videos. All recommended having the belt tight to get the most out of your low in torque. The rear driven pulley freewheels until rpms engage clutch shoes. It just turns with the front variator until then. The big problem so for was the over size torque spring between the clutch and rear sheaves. This tension on the torque spring is heavy and . over match for the variator .In my opinion, front variator can't overcome the extra tension of the torque spring and keeps rear sheave from opening as far as it should. I wasn't sure what RPM clutch spring that was sent from Dallas, so I ordered stock everything to establish a base line to start from. I can climb hills pretty good now, nice to be able to maintain speed and still have throttle left. My transmission parts come Tue. and new jets on Wed. Maybe by the weekend I'll get time to figure this out. I'm also thinking the crank shaft ext the variator is mounted to could be shortened and re threaded. Looks like they used the same length shaft on the Ambassador to allow for extra starting gear wheel, the NER just has a spacer that can be reworked to allow pullies to line up. We will figure it out. Went for a ride this afternoon down to Fort Collins to check out the Tour De Fat parade. Put about 7or8 miles on it, mostly in traffic and she did really good up until I had to sit at two two many lights. After I got going, she cooled down pretty quick. Later Gators, Russell---
     
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  17. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    Hi Russell, i still need to spend more time with the NE-R, I'm just enjoying it the way she is running right now.
    I'm going to kinda take the back seat and learn from what your doing, if thats OK? i gotta figure out how to drop the temp from the crankcase too, looking forward to your progress.

    Ray
     
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  18. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    10-4 on enjoying the ride. Every time I work on my bikes, just can't wait to see how the mods work out! Still have a lot to do this winter when I will not be tempted to go ride. My new jets should be here tomorrow, I'm ready to be finished with this latest round of fine tuning. My home made jets are really close, but I ordered OEM Kiehin jets that will work better. When finished with CVT changes, I will post pictures of my NER. If you click on my home page here, there is a picture of the bike the day we un-crated and assembled her. "o miles". This was before he gave it to me, the following Fathers Day. Pretty cool,huh? Lator gator----- Russell Ray
     
  19. Racie35

    Racie35 Member

    Russell...what size pulley behind the auto? An ambassador has 2 choices if you flip it.
     
  20. RUSSELL45

    RUSSELL45 New Member

    Racie, the NER also has that double pulley you can flip, on the jack shaft that connects the belt (AX62) to the rear wheel sheave. Are you asking about my reference to the crankshaft spacer in post #16 above? Between my front variator drive plate and flywheel, there is a spacer approx. 1" long. I'm confused also with the engineering thoughts with this set-up. Here's the order my front parts are from engine. Flywheel, 1" long spacer, drive plate, drive face spacer, sliding over this spacer is the front variator plate with 6 rollers inside it, and 3 variator slides between it and the variator back plate followed by a flat washer and finally the nut. My front belt (PL20508) does not line up with variator and rear adjustable sheave. Also, the splines on front shaft, from the engine are not long enough to allow variator back plate to reach them. I was thinking if those splines were cut 3/8" longer toward the engine and the 1"spacer was shortened by about 3/8" also, this would allow the entire variator to move closer to the engine (less stress on driveshaft) allowing both front & rear variator plates to be connected by splined shaft instead of only the rear drive plate as is now. Hence, possibly helping the belt alignment problem. Shaft splines appear to have been cut too short, so to correct this they added a longer spacer and this put the belt out of alignment! I'm still trying to understand Chinese engineering. Maybe the spacer was cheaper to build rather than re-tooling to cut shaft correctly. HMMMMM, another first, huh! Also belt cover mounting studs from engine might come into play. Fixable. This is only my thoughts and observations on my bike (2008 Whizzer NER). Hopefully my explanations make some sense to you. Some times thoughts in my head don't always get on paper accurately and sometimes they do, but shouldn't! Lator Gator, Russell----
     
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