New Owner with problems....

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by mortiseman, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Hello Everyone!


    I just purchased a 1999 WC1 yesterday. I know nothing about the bike or Whizzers in general!!! I actually purchased the bike for my dad and want to get it running before I give it to him.

    I purchased the bike knowing it did not run. While the guy was moving the bike, a dresser fell on the bike and broke the "run switch" on the right handle. The guy who sold me the bike was 90% sure this is why the bike would not run. Last night I replaced the entire switch assembly and charged the battery.

    Last night I tried to fire the bike with no success. I see the bike has a key, a run switch, 2 fuel cut-offs, a choke, a clutch and a thumb switch under the clutch (not sure what this is???). The guy who sold me the bike told me that you turn the key, open the fuel cut-offs, throw the run switch, and pull the clutch. After you pedal you let out the clutch and the bike should fire???? I did notice that if I pushed the switch (under the clutch handle) while the clutch was pulled it that the headlights dim and it seemed to want to start. If I let go of that switch the bike just dies....

    Any idea what I am missing here?

    Finally, The guy who sold it to me told me that it had the original spark plug and that it probably needed replaced. I saw in a post, "for early head it is BR6HIX #3419. On later, 10mm plug use CR7EIX #7385". How do i know what "head" I have?

    Thank you for all of your help. just reading on this forum has gave me great insight on Whizzer motorbikes!
     

  2. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Mortiseman,
    I received you PM, but it might help other new Whizzer owners if I post an answer to your questions here. Use the compression release to start your Whizzer, not the clutch. Simply enguage the lever [on the left control, under the clutch lever], start pedaling and then release the lever to start the motor. On the WC-1 motors you will need to open the fuel petcock on the tank, the fuel shutoff on the side of the carburetor, lift the choke lever [black assembly on the carburetor], and then use the compression release, start pedaling, release compression lever, motor should start. After the motor starts, move the choke lever downward to ride motorbike.
    The 1999 used a 14 MM sparkplug, and can be replaced with a NGK sparkplug [ I think a C5HS would work]. Gap the plug at .025". If the motor has a Champion spark plug [original], just have an auto parts store cross it over to the NGK brand. I also think an Autolite #275 is the correct plug for the 1999 model.
    If the bike has been sitting for a long period of time, you might need to remove and clean the carburetor.
    How many miles are on the Bike? Before you give the bike to your Dad, you might want to consider upgrading the motor, to make it start EASY, idle smoother, more low end torque, and better gas mileage. Most Whizzer dealers can help you, and I noticed you are in Ohio [I am from Dayton], so help may be close, if not I can help you from North Carolina via phone [252-475-04060].

    Have fun,
    Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton "Lee" Guenther
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
  3. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Thanks for the reply Quenton.

    First, happy Independence Day to all!

    Well, i have replaced the spark plug, drained all of the old gas and cleaned the carburetor. How can I tell if I am getting a spark? I have checked all the grounds and I have removed the battery (I think it may be bad). I just can't get this thing to turn over....

    Thanks!

    -MM
     
  4. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi MM,
    Remove the spark plug, leave it connected to the coil [spark plug cap], lay base of spark plug against the head [to create the ground], turn motor over [pedal] and look for spark at the tip of the spark plug. If you have spark, you might try putting just a little gas [via the spark plug hole, with plug removed], install the plug, pedal motor and if it fires, it means no fuel to the motor. Often this process can be repeated, and the motor will start & run.
    If you need additional help you can call me on my cell phone 252-475-0406

    Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  5. jbcruisin

    jbcruisin Member

    spark

    Take out the plug. Plug the spark plug wire back in. Lay the plug on top of the cylinder. Make sure the key is turned on, the run switch at the throttle is flipped up & pedal the bike with the center stand down. The back wheel has to be off the ground so I get someone to hold onto the front of the bike & push the front end down. If it's real sunny it is harder to see the spark if you're outside. The plug has to be against the engine to ground it so it will spark.
    When I got my Whizzer recently I couldn't get it to start. My problem was I would pedal down the road & let out the compression release (under the clutch lever) & it wouldn't start. Finally I did it & cranked the throttle open a little & it took off. My problem was that I wasn't giving it gas while I pedaled. Then I had to pull the choke lever up right away. Hope this helps.
    Jay
     
  6. jbcruisin

    jbcruisin Member

    battery

    Sorry. Forgot to tell you. It will start with a dead battery. My battery has been dead since I got the bike. I always wondered what the battery does. Maybe build up enough juice to blow the horn :)
    Jay
     
  7. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Thanks for the reply.

    Well I did exactly what you suggested and I have no spark. I tested it in a semi-dark garage. I know the guy that I purchased the bike from replaced the coil (because I have the old one in a bag) so I am going to rule that out. I have also recently replaced the RH Control Switch Assembly and lastly I moved the main ground to the engine head.

    Does anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram before I start unplugging things?

    Thanks again for your help!!

    -MM
     
  8. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    There is a wiring diagram in the back of the Whizzer Service Manual. If you don't have a copy, private message me and I can send you a scan of that page. If you want to get a copy of the manual, I understand that Whizzer is temporarily out of stock right now. You might try some of the Whizzer dealers on this forum, or perhaps Memory Lane Classics (www.memorylane-classics.com). I'm not sure if they have it, but they usually have a lot of Whizzer literature.
    -Chris
     
  9. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    After hundreds of requests I agreed to supply a lot of information on the wiring and wiring harness.
    Whizzer has offered several different versions of the harness, but the basics remain the same. Often wire colors are changed by one of their vendors, but is usually exchanged with a similar color.
    The most common problem is the loss of grounds or the misunderstanding of the 2 ground system. All "black" wires are ground. All "dark green" wires are ground. In order for the motor to fire only a few items are needed. If the battery isn't used [to smooth out the current] several items won't function correctly. The ignition circuit only needs a Coil, CDI, alternator [stator], and the ignition sensor to power the motor. If you use a battery and don't use the AC/DC & regulator modules, the battery will most likely not survive. The horn won't work correctly without the battery. The turn signals & brake light will cause the lights to operate poorly without the battery. Most Whizzer owners leave the key switch on and run the battery down. If the battery is completly down, the motor most likely will not charge the batter up full, and will require charging with a small battery charger. If the ground on the coil is missing the plug will not fire. If the ground on the CDI is missing the plug will not fire. If the kill switch is shorted to the handlebars the plug will not fire. The horn is activated by attaching a ground to the horn [via the horn button]. The key switch shorts the green wire on the CDI to ground when in the off position. The kill switch shorts the green wire on the CDI to ground in the off position. The ignition switch should be used when a battery is used with the complete haness, becuse it allows the lights to work off the battery when the motor isn't running. All orange and light blue wires are for the turn signals. Green wires with a red stripe are usually the brake light system [however I have seen green with a yellow strip used]. If the turn signals don't flash it is most likely in the switch on the left handlebar needs cleaned. Tail light bulbs burn out often if ridden on a bumpy road. the most commonly replaced parts are the tail light bulb, the headlight bulb [special], turn signal flasher, and the coil [broken spark plug cap or wire pulled out of coil body]. Most people that modify the harness have problems with the ground circuits. I have found it easier to hide the extra wires as opposed to removing them. The later wiring harness has a ground circuit in the rear light plug [motor won't fire unless the rear of the harness is plugged in. The following items have a ground... coil [green wire is the ground], CDI [black wire is the ground], regulator [black wire is the ground], AC/DC relay [black wire is the ground] key switch [yellow wire with a red stripe is ground] kill switch [green wire is the ground] battery [black wire is the ground]. The gray wire on the horn is 12V [with motor running or with battery] The horn, flasher, and brake light switches aren't grounded. The 3 wires for the front head light are ground [black wire], and the other 2 are for high and low beam [controlled from the left control assembly. the 3 wires for the tail ight are ground [black wire], tail ight [yellow], and brake light [usually light green with a red stripe]. There are many extra yellow and black wires in the harness to power the guage lights [speedometer & tachometer]. If the fuse is blown the motor will most likely still run, but the lights won't work with the motor off.
    It is necessary to connect the green and black grounds together if only using the minmium wiring system.
    The current stator is 81 watts and will make the horn work correctly without a battery.

    Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton
     
  10. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Well I still can not get a spark!

    I took off the entire harness to have a look for anything obvious and did not see anything. I took the cover off the kill switch and put a small piece of plastic over the wiring to see if it was shorting on the handlebars and that was not the issue. I created a photo set on flickr.com of the wiring. Do any of you mind taking a look to see if you see something obvious. I am at wits end!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/28329791@N07/

    Thanks!
     
  11. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi mortiseman, Some Whizzer dealers are open all the time, seven days a week, and I am one of those. Of course I can help you. If you have a few small jumper clips, and a little time I will tell you the minimum to fire your bike. You don't need the kill switch, the ignition switch, and or a battery to make the motor fire. If you have an ohm meter it will be even easier to troubleshoot. In order for the spark plug to fire, several things must be true, first the spark plug must be good, secondly the green wire on the coil must be grounded. The green wire on the CDI must NOT be grounded. The black wire from the CDI plug must be grounded to fire. The blue wire with the yellow stripe goes between the CDI and the sensor, the black wire with the red stripe goes from the CDI to the coil. You only need the coil, CDI, flywheel sensor, sparkplug, and a working stator [coils under the flywheel] to produce fire. The ignition switch stops the fire by grounding the green wire in the CDI plug. The kill switch grounds the same green wire to stop the fire. Hope this helps.

    Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  12. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    Mortiseman, this might be a dumb question, but have you checked the fuse on the red wire that leads to the main switch? (It's image 071 in your photos.) It's a 12v 7amp fuse, and if it's blown your ignition system is rendered inoperative.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  13. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    I got it to fire!!!

    The problem was I was not getting a ground from the coil. I ran a wire from the green on the coil to the frame it it sparked. I tore open the harness and I could not find where the green wire was grounded to the frame so i made a ground and it runs!!

    My only issue now is the horn will not work. I got a replacement 12V horn from a local motorcycle store and you can just hear it "click" when you hit the horn button.

    Another question....

    When I pull the clutch handle at a stop should I be able to idle? The bike seems to die when I pull the clutch in....

    thanks again for all of your help!
     
  14. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    How is the battery? The horn usually needs to have a well charged battery to function well. If you try the horn button while you rev the engine it may work. Mine is largely mute as well, as I've got to recharge my battery.
    If your engine dies when you pull the clutch in, your small drive belt might be a hair tight or your idle might be adjusted a hair low.
     
  15. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi mortiseman,
    Happy you found the fire. The reason I mentioned the coil ground first in the last post is because about 75% of the time it is the problem. KilroyCD is right about the battery needing a charge before the horn will work. The odds are high that your new horn won't work unless it is exactly the same requirments as the original horn. If you have a charged battery and the correct horn it will work well. The reason for the battery is to supply a backup system for the brake light, but it helps smooth out the voltage and the horn and turn signals work better. BTW when the motor is running the gray wire on the horn is 12V, and the horn button supplies the ground to complete the circuit.

    Have fun,
    Whizzer Outerbanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton
     
  16. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Finding more things....

    First, what is the best way to loosen the small drive belt a hair? I tried to tighten the nut on the clutch cable but that still did not give me enough slack on the belt when I pull the clutch. That is the reason the bike is stalling when i have the clutch pulled. It is still trying to run the rear tire and it is stalling. Do I have to go as far as moving the engine on the mounts?

    Second issue....I went for a ride this evening and when I put the bike away i saw a steady stream of gas coming out of the carb overflow tube. I looked in the driveway and there was a line of gas from where i drove into the garage. I would not think this is normal.....

    Thanks!
     
  17. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Ah! Time to talk clutch adjustments again. But guess it is more important to talk about your gas trail first. Sounds like the float may be stuck open in the carburetor, and not shutting off the fuel supply to the float bowl. It is possible a speck of dirt, or paint chips from the tank are lodged in the sut off needle affixed to the float. Often a "sharp" tap on the side of the carburetor will dis-lodge the obstruction and allow the float to do its job, if not you will need to remove the float bowl and clean the jet [easy to do]. Be sure to correct this problem, because in 1958 the same thing happened to my 1951 Whizzer Ambassador at a gas station, and then it backfired, and after the fire, my Whizzer was really a true black color overall. I also found that Whizzers with melted tires don't roll very well. nor is the seat covering fire proof. Anyway fix the fuel problem before adjusting the belts.
    I am going to tell you how I adjust the belts, not how others do it or how any book covers the proceedure. The most difficult part is getting the front belt correctly adjusted, so I start with the front first. Most have a problem getting the front belt tight, not the problem of dis-engaging at the stop sign. I use the AX27 front belt, but the Whizzer is equiped with a 4L290 [1/2" x 29"]when new. If your belt doesn't break free when stopped, you should first check to see is someone discarded the metal bracket under the belt guard. The bracket is needed to cause the belt shape to lengthen when the clutch pulley is lowered. If you are missing the bracket then order from your Whizzer dealer [always support your local Whizzzer dealer when possible]. If you can't locate one contact me for assistance. Remove the rear belt from the rear sheeve for the moment. If the bracket is on your bike then adjust the cable to pull the pulley downward as far as needed to loosen the front belt. If the cable adjustment won't lower the pulley enough, then loosen the 3 screws on the clutch cable bracket mounted on the frame [on the seat downpost] and move it downward approx 1/2", re-adjust the cable to loosen the front belt. It is important to adjust the cable so that it grips when released and dis-engages when stopped, but never adjust with out the bracket in place. after you have the front adjusted, install the rear belt on the sheeve, but watch closely to see if the rear belt causes the clutch pulley to lower. If the pullery drops much with the rear belt installed it means the rear belt is too tight and the Wheel should be moved foward slightly. If moving the wheel forward causes the chain to be too loose, then loosen the top moto mount nut, and push the top of the motor forward slightly, and tighten the motor mount nut.
    Hope this helps, if not ask again.

    Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton
     
  18. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Good Afternoon Quenton,

    When looking for the metal bracket you mentioned for the belt adjustment what exactly am i looking for? It it listed on the parts list on the whizzer website?

    http://whizzermotorbike.catalog.com/browseGroup.cfm?item_group_id=48792

    I am just wondering what exactly I am looking for when I take the Belt Guard off this evening.

    Thanks!
     
  19. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi,
    Sorry I can't locate the part number on the site either. The bracket has 4 holes and mounts to the studs under the belt guard. If it is missing or you need pictures email me at quincy163@yahoo.com. I won't be able to sell it to you because I don't know the price, so the only option is to give it to you, but you must pay the shipping costs. You are welcome to call me on my cell phone if needed 252-475-0406. Let me know what works for you.

    Have fun,
    Whizzer OuterBanks LTD
    A North Carolina Corporation
    Quenton
     
  20. mortiseman

    mortiseman New Member

    Hi Quenton,

    Well I got the carb fixed. The actual plastic Float Set was filled with Gas! therefore it would not move the pin to stop the gas. Have you ever seen that??? It looks like there is a small hole in the Float set and that is how it filled with gas...

    When I put the belt cover back on the bike I think that solved the belt problem. It looks like on the Belt cover there are 2 clips on the top and bottom that keep the belts shape when you pull the clutch in. I can pull the clutch and open the throtal and the bike won't move.

    i am still having problems with the bike idling. It actually won't idle at all. As soon as I pull the clutch and I am at a stop the engine dies. What adjustment screw do i mess with to fix the ideling problem?

    Thanks again!!!
     
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