New style Grubee Clutch in Grubee III ?

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by ocscully, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Anyone here who has installed one of the newer style Grubee clutches in their Grubee II or III gearbox? After 6000+ miles of riding I wore out the clutch bell and bushing on my Grubee III Gearbox. The excessive play causing the gear on the clutch bell to begin to self destruct. I purchased a complete replacment clutch and bell from bicycle-engines and when I recieved it last Thursday it turned out to be one of the newer style clutches with the Type III bell, bushing, and key. When I went to install it on Friday I could not get the setup to work properly. When I would tighten the bolt on the crankshaft of the motor the bell would lock up and not rotate. Attempts to reach and talk to a knowledgeable person at bicycle-engines were not successful either Friday or today.

    ocscully
     

  2. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Member

    Not good news.Could they have just sent the wrong one?Did you contact Terry at Blow by u? Please Keep us posted cuz I'm in the same boat.
     
  3. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Finally got thru to Jeremy at bicycle-engines and discussed the problem I was having. He wasn't able to provide any solutions other than to say no one else had reported any problems and he himself had installed one of the new clutches in a Grubee II gearbox recently without any problem. So I spent some time this morning measuring parts and pieces and checking clearances and found where the clutch bell was binding on some very small ridges that are cast into the crankcase. (See Photo #4 below) there are five of these ridges on the edge of the gearbox mount. One each at the mounting bolt locations and the fifth one at the very bottom of the circle. With the old clutch these ridges weren't a problem, but with the increased thickness of the new clutch the clearances are much tighter and they do create a problem (at least they do with my Honda motor). I'm thinking I will be able to shim out the clutch enough to clear these ridges and still keep the gears aligned properly in the gearbox. The first three photos below are to show the differences in the older style clutch and the newer style replacement. The newer style has alot more engagement surface, wider shoes and clutch bell.

    ocscully
     

    Attached Files:

  4. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Member

    So if order just the clutch and they send me the new style. Will it work with the original clutch bell that came with the Stage II or III?? :sweatdrop:
     
  5. MasterLink

    MasterLink Member

    ocscully i think i had the same issue ontill i flipped the clutch over the thing only works one way it will bind the other way......... and here is what happind to me after words you seen them bolts holding in the shoes on the new clutch one bolt came lose so i put loctight on all of them
     
  6. MasterLink

    MasterLink Member

    one more thing that i had to do was run this stage 2 with new cluch and bell and bushing
    in grease now they made the new bushings out of some kind of light medal or something and i was told to soak the bushing in oil over night then i filled the gears up with wheel packing grease and some oil to thin it up a bit
     
  7. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Keith,

    No you shouldn't try to mix and match parts, here in my opinion. It would be a shame to give up the extra added surface area. You Should probably order the whole package for $36.99. I'll know more tomorrow afternoon. I spent the morning working on a new turn-buckle for the left side of my Shift Kit and running around picking up the various fasteners to get everything re assembled. I'll be at it first thing tomorrow morning. I'll let you know what I figure out. I bought enough shims I should have some extras. If it works I'll throw one in an envelope and mail it to you.

    ocscully
     
  8. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Thanks for the heads up about the bolts. I'll be sure to remove them and add locktite.

    As for flipping the clutch, there seems to be only one way that the thing will even come close to fitting in my gearbox. So i'll just have to try out my shimming idea. I'll know one way or the other by tomorrow afternoon.

    ocscully
     
  9. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Member

    Thanx...it should be interesting.I can't believe that the clutch is not just a bolt on deal.But hey whats new it's close enough...ship it!
     
  10. MasterLink

    MasterLink Member

    i loved the new clutch rides ......it works .... better ..... hey one more thing i can tell you is that the key will push that clutch out look at the crank shaft you will see how that would happin so i put my clutch on then i keyed... file the key way down if you are to tight with the key it will push that clutch out
    hey can you tell me if the shift kit is worth it and did u get more top speed to me that motor mount looks better ..is it ohh i am hill less here
     
  11. MasterLink

    MasterLink Member

    in pic 2 thats the side that gos into he the motor ♦
     
  12. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Member

    The 4 stroke shift kit is awsome :tt1:well worth the money.I hit 38mph on one of those mobile police radar units and believe me it had more left to it but... I didn't!Scared myself.You have so many gear ratio options for the jack shaft and for the rear derailleur.You could climb a wall,go fast,or anything in between.
     
  13. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Well today was another frustrating morning trying to get the new replacment clutch to work with the Grubee III Gearbox. The shim I made was successful in keeping the clutch shoes and bell from binding on the crankcase and keeping the drive gear and the other gears properly aligned, but then when I closed up the gearbox and tighted the bolts the bolt on the end of the crank shaft was hitting the inside of the case (Photo #4) and making a heck of a racket. I filed a bit off the bolt and took out the lock washer and relied on just lock tight to keep the bolt in place. Closed things up again and part of the noise went away but there was still more noise than I thought was proper.

    MasterLink when I tried installing the clutch as you suggest was successsful for you I wasn't able to line up the gears and would have never been able to get the two halves of the case to close up. I wonder why there is a difference.

    As for your questions regarding the 4-stroke shift kit. I'm in agreement with MotoMagz, Its a great product. My top speeds aren't as high as MotoMagz (I've only seen 35 mph) But that was plenty fast for me. What I like most about the kit is with it you get up to speed much faster/quicker. With the gears the bike does not lug/bog when you start from a stop and at the top end the motor is not over reving. The gas mileage is wonderful (low to middle 170's mpg) and since you only have the one chain on the right side of your rear wheel when you get a flat it a really simple process to remove the wheel to fix the flat and get back on the road. I can't imagine you would be disappointed in the kit if you were to get one.

    ocscully
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  14. MasterLink

    MasterLink Member

    tap that clutch on with a hammer and 1/2 drive socket with out the key you will... see and hear it seat then you will be all done just the fact that you said the case almost closed ...let me guess there is a small mark where the bolt scored the cover ,,,,,,,this tells me its is 100% backwards ! i no this as i did the same dam thing .....here is my take on why this happins the old clutch makes the crank have a ring around the shaft ...at the back of the crank that doesn't let the clutch ride were it ment to
     
  15. a different shim!!! maybe?

    Would this work??? Might take several tries. Make a shim copy of the gasket that goes between the gear box and engine[the 4 bolt gear box mounting pattern] Maybe with the added thickness of the shim it might solve the problem
     
  16. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Well I finally got the stack height of the new clutch to fit inside the old type III gearbox, and got the cover closed and nothing rubbing/grinding the inside of the cover, last Friday. But the gear noise was just to great for me to put up with. It was worse than when the gearbox was brand new. At the time when I purchased the replacement clutch a friend purchased one of the 2009 5:1 4G Drives. He offered me the chance to try it out on my bike and I jumped at the chance. I installed it last weekend and though it's not perfect, I feel it is a vast Improvement over the Type III gearbox. It has some issues with the clutch engaging to early (at idle, worse than my old Type III clutch) but I think that I will be able to remedy this problem by either lightening the shoes or getting some stronger springs. So I'm giving up on my old Type III Gearbox and switching to the 4G for the Honda motor. Even the 5:1 reduction is not a problem since I'm using it with the SBP 4-stroke shift Kit. Its really easy and relatively inexpensive to change the drive ratios to a manageable range by changing chainrings and or the output driver on the jackshaft.

    ocscully
     
  17. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Member

    Well I tried to get a hold of Jeremy at Bicycle-engines.com to see what could be done about this clutch issue.Left him a voice mail (no response) and the kid I talked to on the phone was not very helpful.I just don't get how you can sell something that doesn't work???I have always gave them high marks at BE.com but not this time.I have had my stage II for 4 years with no problems until the clutch shoe went.The replacement bell and clutch was $40 or $50 shipped and RecumbentBill was selling the 4G for $80.Well sorry to ramble but I to am going with the 4G and the shiftkit.As ocscully said the shift kit parts are cheapto buy.I can't believ the ride is going to get even better!!!
     
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