noob with questions and ideas

Discussion in 'Electric Bicycles' started by ozzyu812, May 1, 2008.

  1. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    brushed vs brushless. Is the drag on brushed motors so bad that you have to run it all the time? 200 bucks more for brushless is it worth it?
    To help charge the battery and increase range. I was thinking of mounting a car alternator to the frame. Using one of those sprockets that attach to the spokes to drive it. I think will be turning in the opposite direction as it does in a car. Would it make charge going backwards? If not, I think I can work out a way to get it rotating the right way. As for the speed, with a 14T sprocket on the alternator and 50T the one on the wheel, at 20 mph it will turn at about 900 rpm. With a custom 80T it will turn at about 1500 rpm. Do you think this would be fast enough to produce a significant charge? Keep in mind when the alternator is going 2-3x faster than the engines rpm when in a car.
    When I was trying to find out more about brushed vs brushless, I ran accros this thread http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=6444&highlight=brushed+brushless. I dont really get why he even needs the gas engine. Just hook up th generator part of it the way I'm talking about with the alternator.
    HOLD ON! That belt drive bike just caught my eye. http://www.bikeengines.com/bentest.htm That large "pulley" on the rear wheel should provide adequate rpm's for the altenator or Just for Kicks's generator. You'd think anyway. Wonder if they sell that part separately.

    Well it getting late.

    Thanks in advance!
    OZ
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2008

  2. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    I'd go with brushless. Just easier, more efficient, & they'll last forever.

    And forget the whole alternator idea. If you add more weight and more drag on the system, you CANNOT possibly get more than what you put in. And, realistically speaking, you WON'T get anywhere close to 100%.

    Keep It Simple St00pit - KISS
     
  3. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    NOT perpetual motion

    I'm not thinking I can build a perpetual motion machine.:-/ I just don't want fry the batteries. Will an alternator provide a compatible charge? 20% return would do the trick.
    I'm only goin to run electric for a year at the absolute most. I'm not looking to break any speed records I don't want to break the bank. This is the one I'm considering http://www.poweridestore.com/Model-409-Front-Brushed-Hub-Motor-Kit. If anyone knows of a cheaper one that has range of about 20 mi. and I can replace brushes if I need to, I hope to not have to use it that long. I mainly need help with NH hills.
     
  4. kerf

    kerf Guest

    The alternator will increase the rate of battery discharge not reduce it. The only benefit would be a micro processor that only used the alternator for breaking. Other than that, it would pull more energy to turn the rotor, than it would produce, hence, quicker battery drain.
     
  5. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    If at all possible get a rear hub motor. The front ones are best for trikes and other bikes that can't possibly take a rear hub. I've heard of more issues with broken dropouts and weird handling with front hub than rear.
    If you're on an extreme budget you could order a Currie Ezip Trailz from WalMart.com. I got one for my girl (and my own personal enjoyment).
    They're not hela fast, probably 18mph under motor power alone BUT the whole bike is built tough as nails. I spent $350 on the bike shipped site to store (no shipping charge) and ordered a spare battery and charger from Currie for an extra $150. So for around $500 i have a nice tough 20mile range (on these hills) ebike for less than that kit plus a bike to put it on.
    The hub kits range and speed will be better though, so you'll have to decide for yourself. Just thought I'd throw the idea out there.
    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=936799&fromPageCatId=133073&catNavId=133073
     
  6. Drunkskunk

    Drunkskunk Member

    you picked a nice kit, but I would make 2 changes, First being a rear hub motor, and second would be to upgrade it to 48volts. Those Crystalyte motors are bulitproof.

    Forget the alternator idea. it would cut your range in half. they don't spin for free. to make 500 watts of output, they would eat up 700 or 800 watts of input. I can break that down to a better explination if you're intrested, but the short version is it won't help, but it will hurt.

    Regen braking is an intresting idea, but the rolling mass of a rider on a bike isn't much, so there isn't much kenetic energy to convert back to electricity. if you could recover 5% it would be considered amazing, but the slower you're going, the less there is to recover, and at 20mph, it probably wouldn't be worth it. for the same weight and expense, you could just run a bigger battery and get better range.
     
  7. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    Thanks SirJakesus & Drunkskunk for your replies. I would have never thought of Wally World as a source! :shock: I will look into those further.
    Time is short now I will come back to it tonite.
     
  8. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    SirJakesus,
    I had heard about the dropout problem and totally stripped my parts bike. In order to take the forks to work and get it reinforced or take it to a weld shop. As for the weird handling, I thought front wheel drive car handled weird until they grew on me.
    That said, I think I'm pretty well sold on the E-Zip. I found this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vuk-O6gk-RM That little motor is pretty powerful. It started that guy off from a standing stop with a near 1:1 gear ratio! Another plus is its not a rear hub motor, as I have other plans for the rear hub. I can think of a couple of different ways to mount it, partnered with a Happy Time. (I can't keep anything stock)So it would have long term usefulness.
    I am having a hard time finding the extra charger and battery. Ones I see are alot more and don't look the same and cost more. Is this the right site? http://www.currietech.com.au/

    Drunkskunk & kerf,
    My gut tells me your right about the altenator. But I think I would have to try it just to see for myself. But its on the back burner for a while.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2008
  9. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    The currie system runs off a left side freewheel. Unless you attached a happytime sprocket to that same left side freewheel you couldn't use the two systems together.... however i'm sure it's not impossible and it would be AWESOME to do :)
     
  10. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    "quick" drawings

    its late i will continue tommorrow
     

    Attached Files:

  11. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    I was looking at the trailz before I took it out, it looks like there would be enough room to get a happytime sprocket next to the leftside freewheel as long as you were able to remove the freewheel first. Putting 415 chain in there may make it tight so you may have to use BMX chain to have enough clearance but I think it's doable. Get the mountain bike version not the unisex/hybrid framed one if you're looking for enough room to mount a HT engine. Since these ezips can pull you from a standstill I think adding the gasser would give you AWESOME acceleration up to 18mph where the electric motor cuts out. ****, you wouldn't even have to pedal at all to bump start and I'm sure it would climb hills like a craaaazy mofo since they use a geared motor with tons of torque. The only shame is that it doesn't have the ability to regen but you would just ride with electric power for accelerating below the 18mph mark and climbing so I couldn't see any specific range issues.

    ****, I think as long as you had a kill switch handy and killed it before a cop was right there you could say you're only using the electric power and you use the gas for off-road... Just keep in mind electrics are only supposed to pull you along at 20mph so that excuse isn't going to work if you're doing 30.
    Can't wait to see you do it ozz, and yes, we should ride sometime. Even if its just electrics or whatever but my XR75 is just begging for some MB company.


    Quoted from LargePhilipino's $350 walmart ebike thread just to not have to repeat myself
    ------------------------------------
    Yeah I got the Ezip Trailz Womens a few months ago as a tag along for my fam and girlfriend (I ride it too, the pink doesn't bother me).
    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8467095
    I wrote the first review on there if you didn't guess.

    I just went out on it to test it's range for Ozzy. I was pedaling normally, not breaking a sweat or anything and I rode 12.5 miles at 15.2mph average speed. I think I could have squeezed an extra mile out of the battery but I decided not to totally drain it and switched over to my secondary battery to high tail home.
    Keep in mind I live in a very hilly part of New Hampshire literally a couple of miles away from mount Watatic. I used the motor while pedaling the whole time except for downhill. With the motor alone on the only flat road near my house the bike topped out at 18mph just as advertised. With my secondary currie battery pack my range is probably 25 miles or more if I rode it very conservatively.
    Whoever complains about the Trailz is just expecting too much from such a relatively inexpensive product.
    I've looked around and there are a lot of upgrade products available for these Currie systems as well. Heftier motors and controllers to be more specific. But I've read a bunch at endless sphere about people who were able to easily convert these into a 36v system as long as you're careful not to ride the motor so hard that it overheats and burns out. Otherwise the controller can handle the extra 12v with no problems and makes these bikes top out around 25. Personally I wouldn't do it just because I always value longevity over performance but when my SLA batteries die I may upgrade the packs to lithium and have incredible range.
     
  12. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    The kill switch idea may be pushing it. I think the HT would have to be disabled. I've been a good boy for 12 yrs. to get my license back. I don't want to risk it now that I'm so close to getting it back.
    You said it cuts out at 18 mph. Is there a governor?
    You really think there room to fit the calmshell sprocket on the same side as the Currie freewheel? Not having seen either in person I thought something would hit somewhere. I've also thoght of put the Currie motor just in front of the MT idler. But until I have them I won't know.
    I have an XR250 I picked up at a yard sale, but I ride my Roadmaster/Magna to work. Its geared higher.
    I have to PM you my phone # typing is for the birds. LOL
     
  13. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    Well, I can't say for sure if it would fit but it looks like it could be possible. May take some head scratching to do but thats part of every MB project. The Trails cuts out at 18 not because of a governor I think thats just as fast as the motor will spin at 24v. You can still hear the motor humming along when you're flying downhill if you're not bright enough to let off the throttle.

    12 years... go****. Take the cops on a high-speed chase or something?
    Not a big fan of phone conversation myself. I like my phone calls to be the 1-5 minute quick exchange of info. Otherwise face to face is the way to go. Will have to figure something out for riding, concord is a bit out of my way and people 'round here keep me busy.

    Anyways. ttyl and all.
     
  14. ducatiluke

    ducatiluke New Member

    i like brushed motors

    repacing brushes is a sinch
    motors are cheap or free

    speed controll is cheap and easy

    you loose 5 % efficiency big deal , with the money savings get some nice batterys .

    check out my recycled bike

    scrap bike parts , dead battery powered black & deacker stealth mower

    exerzice bike jackshaft
     
  15. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    SirJakesus-
    Sorry, its took a loooong time to reply. Busy weekend, I picked up a free '83 Murray riding lawn mower. The 12 yr thing, was a combination of a relationship ending badly, curvy Missouri roads, alcohol and in general not caring about anything. I'm with you on the phone convo's. I tend to keep them to the point. I've never been down your way before. I'm am ordering the Currie Ezip June 1st. I had to pin the wife down to a date she has been wishy washy about when I was goin' to get it. Buyin' stuff by committee is worst part about marriage! I don't think I'll use the Currie Frame with the HT. Something about it looks kinda funny maybe its the upward angle of the top bar. I think I'm going to gusset up the magna frame in the welding class and use it.

    ducatiluke-
    I found your B&S build. Pretty cool! I hope its more of a mechanical exercise than something you use frequently. On the other hand I have a 16hp B&S. If the frame is too rusted out and I know the engine runs good. Hmmmmmmm:evil:
    Did you post a pic of the B&D rig somewhere, or was you just saying in thoery?
     
  16. ozzyu812

    ozzyu812 Member

    The Deed is Done

    I ordered the e zip. I almost accidentally ordered the unisex frame. I had that one saved.
    I can't wait to get it to start modifying! Paint 1st no question!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
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