NOS system Paintabll gun on a 2 stroke chinease motor

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by Rconce01, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. Rconce01

    Rconce01 Guest

    Ok guys so i wanted to build something similar to the Nos system they sell for the 2 stroke engines out of a CO2 paintaball cylinder and its expansion chamber.

    So far i have the tank which is approx at 3000 psi the fitting where the tank screws in and a steel braided hose 7" long with a 1/4 npt fitting at the end.

    What i'm trying to figure out is an inexpensive way to control the flow of air from the tank into the intake.

    I guess it could be manually or with a 12v solenoid capable of handling 3000 psi.

    Any ideas??

  2. Just wanted to know how NOS would help unless your putting more fuel into the engine also. I believe it would just lean out the engine.
  3. Rconce01

    Rconce01 Guest

    Not really, I mean as long as the port is on the intake side of the carburator and the carb is set to run on the rich side. According to my research as long as the nos jet is not on the intake tube there should be no problem.

  4. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    I just wonder how long one of these little Chinese hand grenades with last with a NOS shot. I could be as short as once and done. These motors don't have the quality components it will take to hold up very long under the strain of nitrous. We have all seen the QC issues these motors have. I wish you luck though and I hope it works the way you want but I have my doubts.

    Again good luck. We will all learn from your project so please keep us informed.

  5. Fulltimer

    Fulltimer Member

    I thought those things had CO2 in them.

  6. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    They do.....
  7. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    C02 will NOT do the same thing as nitrous. C02 will EXTINGUISH fires...nitrous (N20) HELPS fires burn like oxygen does and it comes out of the bottle at about negative 127 degrees F. This cools the intake air charge by about 65-70 degrees by the time the nitrous gets into the engine. You MUST HAVE an extra fuel source to run nitrous, just running the carb rich will work, but not for very long.
    a 350 horsepower engine with an intake temperature drop of 70 degrees f, would gain about 25 horsepower just by the cooling effect. add nitrous and the nitrogen buffers the cylinder pressures which leads to more controlled combustion and huge horsepower increases. the added fuel that is injected into the cylinders is burned rapidy by the help of nitrous, with a very low air intake temprature charge. an engine that is sucking in cold air will make more horsepower than an engine sucking in hot air. but you have to have added fuel to make big hirsepower increases. ANY engine will make more horsepower when the air temp outside is -30 F rather than 80degrees F. the benefit of nitrous is the abilty to add more fuel that what the carb supplies, and the nitrous is like spraying pure oxygen onto to a blazing bonfire.
    In order for nitrous to truly be effective, and for your engine to live, you have to add extra fuel besides what is being sucked into the engine from the carb. you have to have a total secondary fuel source (like a solenoid with a jet in it, and fuel under pressure that can be injected into the engine).
    3000 psi of pressure is WAY too much pressure to shove into one of these little 2 stroke engines.
    a typical nitrous set up on a v-8 is injected into the cylinders at only about 800 psi, which is set using a regulator.

    your idea will never work.
    if the 3000 psi doesn't blow the head off the cylinder, the 3000 psi will just stop the piston in it's tracks and probably bend the connecting rod.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  8. Wheres my dog

    Wheres my dog Banned

    Are you thinking there will be some extreme power boost when you run it?

    I do believe that the CO2 will indeed kill the engine as it will reak havoc in the cylinder as opposed to the flammable nitrous....

    Science my boy, science
  9. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    nitrous is not flammable. Nitrous helps FUEL burn faster, like oxygen does. you can not light nitrous oxide on fire without a fuel source.
    just like adding oxygen to an already burning fire.
    watch the old movie "backdraft" when there is a smoldering fire in an air tight room, as soon as the door is opened, and oxygen is added to the room, the smoldering fire explodes.
    Nitrous works in the same way.
  10. Rconce01

    Rconce01 Guest

    Ok, well i wasn't planning on shooting 3000 psi into the combustion chamber. Thats not too bright. I was going to put a small nozzle that would restrict the flow of the 3000 psi into something manageable that would yield some power increase.

    So for all of those bashing my idea:

    How come people rig an Ultraflate kit which uses disposable high pressure co2 cartridges onto their pocket bikes and motor bikes burst it a couple time while doing top speed runs and have great results?

    The only difference is that I am not using a Ultraflate that has been re-branded with a "NOS" or "BOOST" sticker which actually contains CO2.
    I am using a canister capable of greater capacity and use between refills.

    Why does the Ultraflate work and my idea won't work? :bowdown:


    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2010
  11. Fulltimer

    Fulltimer Member

    You are right, it will not in itself burn. It is an oxidizer. It works with the oxygen. You would have to use some kind of regulator. But, the chances are good you would blow your motor. Just guessing here.

  12. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    even if you use a small nozzle or jet, it will restrict the flow, but it will raise the pressure. Same as putting yout thumb over the end of a garden hose. Less flow, but higher pressure.
    I messed with nitrous oxide for years on drag car engines, and i definitly know what i am talking about.
    there is more to it than just shooting something into an engine to get more power. there are critical things that need to happen to make nitrous work.
    the timing needs to be turned back a few degrees, you must run a colder spark plug, you must add a secondary fuel source (gasoline) everything must be ran through regulators (the secondary fuel source and the nitrous), the nitrous and the fuel need to flow through solenoids with specific jets to make sure that the fuel-nitrous mixture is not too lean, and the fuel pressure needs to be increased.
    Co2 is NONFLAMMABLE like nitrous and it is used as a fire suppressant (such as fire suppressant systems in funny cars). Nitrous on the other hand is also nonflammable but it is a catylist. add nitrous to a fire and the fire will triple in size instantly because it is HELPING the oxygen burn the fire. a catylist is a "helper" in case you don't know what that means.
    if C02 were good for combustion, do you really think that fire extinguishers and fire suppressant systems in race cars would use Co2?
    Co2 displaces oxygen from a fire(it gets rid of oxygen) which makes the fire go out.
    shoot Co2 into your cylinder, and all you will be doing is getting rid of all the oxygen in your air/fuel mixture and cylinder. you will be supressing the burn in the cylinder and filling it with non flammable gas that will kill the engine.
    i understand that you are using Co2 gas rather than a Co2 powder like what's in a fire extingusher....but Co2 is will do the exact same thing.

    you go ahead and do whatever you're going to do, but i am telling you that it will not work.

    your comment about the ultraflate kits is wrong.
    what these guys are doing is getting the ultraflate kit, and replacing the Co2 cartridges with Nitrous filled cartridges that are used in the baking industry for whipped cream containers. the ultraflate kit (cartrige holder and trigger) is what you get when you buy a nitrous kit for a pocket bike or a m.b. off e-bay (or wherever).
    they are just giving you nitrous filled cartridges rather than Co2 filled cartridges.
    these nitrous cartridges are the same size as the Co2 cartridges so they fit right into the ultraflate holder/trigger.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  13. Wheres my dog

    Wheres my dog Banned

    Why are you doing this again?

    What do you plan on gaining with doing this?
  14. Rconce01

    Rconce01 Guest

    Ok I was mistaken, I thought these guys/gals were shooting co2 with their ultraflate kits.

    You've done a good job of helping me understand how this all works! Thanks :cool:

    I agree it won't work.

  15. Rconce01

    Rconce01 Guest

    Haha, man why would you shoot anything into the engine at high pressure?

    MORE POWER :grin5:
  16. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    well technically you can shoot things into an engine under high pressure but it has to be controlled in some mannor.
    a diesel engine injects the fuel into the cylinders at like 1700 psi, nitrous is injected into an engine at like 800 psi.
    your every day car injects fuel into the cylinders at like 300 psi.
    the object of injecting different things into a cylinder is to pack as much air/fuel into the cylinder to get more cylinder pressure, which makes more horsepower. it makes the air/fuel burn more efficiently for better fuel economy. think if you took a can of charcoal lighter fliud and just sprinkled a little on a fire. sure, the fire wold flare up, but it would be small flares and it would not last very long. now take that same can of lighter fluid, and squeeze it, shooting the fluid through a small hole (creating less flow, but more pressure) and the fire will erupt in a huge ball of flame.

    when you add a turbo or a supercharger to an engine you are packing more air into the cylinder which allows you to add more fuel for a bigger explosion, which again makes more horsepower.
    a top fuel dragster uses 5-8 gallons of nitromethane fuel to go 1/4 mile, and that's because it is designed to put as much air and fuel into the cylinders under high pressure as possible. again, the more fuel and air that you can pack into a cylinder, the more horsepower you can make.

    i can understand what he is trying to do, but Co2 is not the way to do it, and 3000 psi is way too much for one of these small engines.
    a turbo or a supercharger on a street car engine normally generates 7-10 psi of boost, and that is a HUGE amount of boost for a v-8.
    a very serious drag engine (588 cubic inches or more) with a turbo or a supercharger may generate up to 50-60 psi of boost and that would disintegrate most engines.
    he is talking about shooting 3000 psi of pressure into a tiny cylinder on a 2 stroke engine that is poorly made, and poorly designed (so to speak).
    the engine would not make any more will grenade itself instantly.
    even if he did use nitrous oxide rather than his original idea of Co2. if he used a catylist such as nitrous at 3000 psi on one of these small engines, someone is going to get hurt by flying shrapnel. the substance that he would be injecting at this point would not even make a difference because the sheer pressure going into the cylinder would cause the engine to come apart in several tiny peices. the head studs that are used on these engines can literally be broken with arm strength....maybe 50-60 lb-feet of torque (if even that much).
    I just don't want to see anyone get hurt thinking that they are going to make one of these engines make a bunch of horsepower by doing something like this.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  17. Rconce01

    Rconce01 Guest

    Yeap so i'm going to have to stick to my vette for my high octane fun. Ohh well thanks once again for the heads up. I dont need the little Chinese motor blowing between my legs at 40 mph.