official MBc stance on EPA?

[BoltsMissing]

It's been a long day at the office,
Augi, you are right, you had much to do with this forum's upringing and I probably did get here at the tail end of it,yet I built my own from shear survival instinct at the time. Yes, there are going to be some fall back sooner or later, but when suggestions are seeded such as;;;;;;,

Augi-
"thumbs up" or instant-impound of any bicycle with an engine on it?

I apologise for losing it and exit this discussion.

 

[augidog]

i don't wanna shut the HT down, i wanna fix it.

bolts'...i wasn't trying to goad you in any way, and there certainly wasn't anything personal in my postulations...but in the usa concerns like the above are real possibilities, and it worries me that we're far from prepared to fight an overreaction from some city/county/state. all over the nation, i'm sure municipalities and cops are going nuts trying to figure out "what" we are and how to handle us.

we'll have to find some compromise that keeps people on our side, my personal opinion is that in the usa emissions-compliance & fair-trade will be factors that can't be ignored, and therefore should be discussed openly & in depth instead of avoided.

Tom: i think all (properly presented) discussions should remain open, and that individual personal insults be edited/removed as irrelevant...but please stop shutting 'em down completely because of a negative reaction, as that allows the nay-sayers to control moderation...one personal negative remark is all it takes to deny someone else their right to speak up. and (some) staff seems more than willing to play along with this practice of amateur-censorship...please try to work out some MBc-policy that will help with this.

 

[BSA]

We will moderate posts to keep them civil as best we can.

BSA

 

[RATRODER]

Like I said before I would welcome EPA discussion in a civilized manner.

Now start your thread in General Discussion.
State your agenda,lets kick around some ideas on how to get government to work for us.

Now that said,It is my belief that the EPA thing on small engines was started by the
same people that bombed Pearl Harbor,and now 60 years later they are winning that war.

 

[augidog]

well, i just shared a chuckle with you over the pearl harbor remark, that's for sure...and actually i dig it as completely relevant! economic warfare is real, and when ignored can be devastating to the "loser"...

so...stay tuned for a general-topic...not about the clean-airness of the label...not about who's riding the coolest thingy...not about which drivetrains will survive the "tornado" as large called it...but about why the labels (and other important, but currently absent, standards) matter now, how does it matter to the movement in the usa, and how do we use it for the potential positive spin it could provide us?

i'll ask the group: if this is something that you don't feel we should be worried about, then please just go on yer merry way and leave the discussion alone. i'll do my best to to keep my part of it generic, but if i have to discuss variances in quality and performance...well, give me credit for having the firsthand experience from which to speak, and don't take it personal.

about my racing effort: i didn't enter sabrina in a novelty/specialty-class, i entered her in the generic "run what ya brung" 130MPH Club, like any participant with a motor-vehicle would...it's time the motorized bicycle got her own "props"...don't ya think? (up to) 5 times during those 4 days in september, the starting line at bonneville will belong to a motoredbike...i think that rocks!

 

[uncle_punk13]

I just wanted to add a small point here.
I've been doing these MB's for a decade now, with many different types of engines, engine kits, and what have you. Yes, it was then and may still (though at the tail end now) be a hobby sort of thing- a secret society of nods, winks, handshakes and brotherhood- Machineries of purpose and joy built by our hands in the garages, attics, basements and kitchens across this America (not to exclude any of the international brothers and sisters, but I'm making a point from and for home here) with pride and youthful spirit.
The thing is, now there are thousands upon thousands of us doing it and that constitutes a movement (ref. 'Alice's Restaraunt'). We are being noticed by Law enforcement, by the media, and by the feds. Like it or not, that's fact.
I've a couple of different things here:
First off- With the rising cost of everything, more and more of the average blue collar workin' stiffs are trying to find a way to make ends meet; Finding little ways to save a little here to put a little there; for little things such as food, rent, running water, electricity.
So in looking at this as one of those ways for the average stiff out there we need a reliable, quality product.
Why?
Because if he or she sees one of these and plans out their budget to spend hard earned money on something that looks to be a viable long term solution, and it turns out carp, well the money spent that could have been used elsewhere has just gone down the drain, in addition to the potential future budgeting based from that busted bike which could have been used elsewhere had they had a quality and reliable product.

And secondly- due to everyone looking to save a few bucks here and there, the rise in scooter sales, motorcycle sales, moped sales, and yes it's true the jump in MotoredBike sales (look at the traffic on this site now compared to two years ago), we are on the radar now and therefore we must take steps; to be proactive in how we are regulated. I like to fly low and not be noticed, but that day is over and now it's time to make our collective voice heard, otherwise we will be (and it HAS already started, again, this is fact) regulated off the road.
I have a happy time and still enjoy the occasional neighborhood buzz upon it, I mention this just so you will know that I am being not biased, but realistic.
Of course it's going to be a controversial topic, change always is and is usually met with resistance. I would agree that lowering ourselves to the childhood level of name calling should be left out, but it is a topic that needs to be discussed, and leading the change is a goal to be worked toward. Together.
Rif

 

[wavygravy]

I just wanted to add a small point here.
I've been doing these MB's for a decade now, with many different types of engines, engine kits, and what have you. Yes, it was then and may still (though at the tail end now) be a hobby sort of thing- a secret society of nods, winks, handshakes and brotherhood- Machineries of purpose and joy built by our hands in the garages, attics, basements and kitchens across this America (not to exclude any of the international brothers and sisters, but I'm making a point from and for home here) with pride and youthful spirit.
The thing is, now there are thousands upon thousands of us doing it and that constitutes a movement (ref. 'Alice's Restaraunt'). We are being noticed by Law enforcement, by the media, and by the feds. Like it or not, that's fact.
I've a couple of different things here:
First off- With the rising cost of everything, more and more of the average blue collar workin' stiffs are trying to find a way to make ends meet; Finding little ways to save a little here to put a little there; for little things such as food, rent, running water, electricity.
So in looking at this as one of those ways for the average stiff out there we need a reliable, quality product.
Why?
Because if he or she sees one of these and plans out their budget to spend hard earned money on something that looks to be a viable long term solution, and it turns out carp, well the money spent that could have been used elsewhere has just gone down the drain, in addition to the potential future budgeting based from that busted bike which could have been used elsewhere had they had a quality and reliable product.

And secondly- due to everyone looking to save a few bucks here and there, the rise in scooter sales, motorcycle sales, moped sales, and yes it's true the jump in MotoredBike sales (look at the traffic on this site now compared to two years ago), we are on the radar now and therefore we must take steps; to be proactive in how we are regulated. I like to fly low and not be noticed, but that day is over and now it's time to make our collective voice heard, otherwise we will be (and it HAS already started, again, this is fact) regulated off the road.
I have a happy time and still enjoy the occasional neighborhood buzz upon it, I mention this just so you will know that I am being not biased, but realistic.
Of course it's going to be a controversial topic, change always is and is usually met with resistance. I would agree that lowering ourselves to the childhood level of name calling should be left out, but it is a topic that needs to be discussed, and leading the change is a goal to be worked toward. Together.
Rif

now were getting somewhere! good on ya riff!-unclepunk.

 

[Tom]

True. The days of flying under the radar are nearing their end. The fate of motorized bicycles rests in our hands. I have a HT as well, and love the darn thing to death.

Times are changing. You can deny it all you want, but it will happen. We just need to make sure we are changing in the right direction.

 

[misteright1_99]

In my opinion the days of the 2 stroke engines is coming to an end. I have a HT engine and I love it. I have ridden 2 strokes since I was 15. But it is a "dirty" engine. You can try to clean it up with Cat. converters and different technology, but it will always be "dirtier" than a comparable 4 stroke. You just look at the motorcycle industry, you cant buy a new 2 stroke anymore, the marine industry also is trying to move to 4 strokes. Looks like alot ofScooters are still 2 stroke for some reason, prob because it is cheaper to make because they dont have as strict enviromental concerns we have in the US.

 

[arceeguy]

True. The days of flying under the radar are nearing their end..............

Part of me is thinking that "add on" bicycle engines have been around as long as the internal combustion engine has been around, and they will be around for a long time. Motorized bike enthusiasts need to get laws passed like the AZ definition and regulation of motorized bikes. (although I would up the displacement limit to 50cc) The key here is less regulation and more personal responsibility. I think limiting motorized bike (or moped) speeds to 20 or 25mph is ridiculous. What you end up with is something that cannot accelerate as quickly as it could because it is restricted by gearing or intake limitations. Should we limit a car to 65mph top speed with gearing and engine restrictions? A simple law stating that a MB shall not be driven over 20mph regardless of posted speed limit seems reasonable to me.

I read on the EPA web site that a short time ago, they did not even regulate the emissions from mopeds and scooters that were 50cc or less. This made sense, because the engine is so tiny. But of course, those "good old days" came to an end. I'll give the credit though, because smaller engines do not have to be as "clean" as larger ones. It is a progressive scale, somewhat like our income tax system. But that's a whole different ball of wax!