Over 20mph in Tucson...you're a MOPED

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by spunout, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. spunout

    spunout Member

    This is kind of on-topic with Torques' deal, but this is a Tucson thing right here. OK, the following, in part, is from the Tucson Police Dept web site, here: http://tpdinternet.tucsonaz.gov/Services/
    under sub-heading 'Motorized Bicycles'.

    What is a motorized bicycle?
    Arizona State law, Title 28, defines motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles as a bicycle or tricycle that is
    equipped with a helper motor that has a maximum piston displacement of 48 cubic centimeters or less, or an electric motor of
    less than 750 watts (1 hp), that may also be self-propelled and that is operated at speeds of less than twenty miles per hour.
    If you exceed 20 mph you are no longer covered under this exemption - this means you will be treated as a moped and
    subject to license, registration, insurance and other operational conditions and will be subject to a citation(s) by the
    Police Department and your vehicle could be towed under the mandatory impound law.


    so, this is how they deal with going 21mph? If a passenger vehicle is capable of exceeding the maximum speed limit on Interstates, or can reach speeds of 200+mph, why then, aren't they considered racecars when doing more than the allowed limit?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015

  2. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    I think what they are saying is that it is OK to have the capability of going faster than 20, but they better not catch you going faster. The FAA has a similar regulation pertaining to ultralites...max of 63 mph or you have to be an experimental. Mine would do 90, and I still qualified. Of course radar doesn't work well straight up, and there aren't many squad cars over 500 feet of altitude.

    Then we are back to the Torques dilemna. Officers word against the perp's word. The burden of proof is supposed to be with the legal system to maintain the innocent against proven guilty idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way. Then you get into the common sense approach. Say you are passing a vehicle, and he accelerates, and you notice a semi coming toward you, do you accelerate to safely get around him and become a criminal, or do you maintain the speed limit and become a corpse? I have an uncle who was police chief for years, and we used to talk about this. My theory was that the whole reason for laws was to have a guidline to maintain order, and prevent people from hurting each other, or damage property. He thought that was cool, and wanted me to apply for his job so he could retire. Since then, it has just gotten too complicated in my opinion. Then again if I was a legal expert I wouldn't be using a bicycle as a daily driver right now. What happened to something that should be so simple to create situations like Torques. He didn't bother anybody, and had to spend jail time? That is just wrong.

    Sorry to ramble so much, but this whole idea really bothers me. Maybe somebody with more expertise can explain it.

    Denny
     
  3. dbigkahunna

    dbigkahunna Guest

    The speed limit in school zones is 20 MPH. Now you can go much faster, but then you get a ticket. Having spent time in Tucson, and having seen first hand the mental midgets behind the wheel, I don't think I want to go faster than 20 on ANY bicycle there. Cruse toward Oracle or out by the base, and I don't think any LE will care. Downtown or by the college and act like a jerk, you stand a good chance of getting pulled over. Speed limits are for safety. Maybe not yours but the other guys. Maybe it is not fair,, and if so , get the laws changed. And those in Tucson, go by Chacos on Craycroft and ask the lady who owns the place for a smothered burrito. Good food and a great town.
     
  4. spunout

    spunout Member

    i'm not griping about wanting to go more than 20mph...thats perfectly fine. but getting busted for going just a tad over, and getting another driving under suspension, no ins, no reg., AND impound? thats excessive.
    isnt a fine enough? even a hefty one? going 36 in a 35 doesnt change your dodge neon to a top-fuel funny car.
     
  5. vyzhion

    vyzhion Guest

    alternative?

    You could always get yourself a motored skateboard. They are definitely prohibited by law to be ridden on the sidewalk or street in Tucson but the penalty is far less severe (civil traffic $500 max fine and it's not a criminal offense). I found one called a skaterX that will do 30 mph with it's little 2-stroke engine, lol. I dunno if I like the idea of going that fast standing up tho.

    SkaterX
    http://www.gasscooters4u.com/product_info.php?products_id=221

    TCC Law pertaining to motored skateboards
    http://library4.municode.com/mcc/li...p&s_addFilter=1&s_addFilter=2&hash=0-0-0-2883
     
  6. spunout

    spunout Member

    hahaha...no WAY would i even consider riding those. much too hairy. thanks for the idea, though.
     
  7. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    Right on! That is excessively punitive. Sheesh!
     
  8. Torques

    Torques Guest

    There is no language written anywhere that says a motorized bicycle becomes a moped after twenty miles per hour and there is no language that spells out penalties.
     
  9. az cra-z

    az cra-z Guest

    Anyone who's lived here very long knows that LE does whatever the heck they want to. The night that the City Council voted to ban stand-up scooters the Chief of Police was quoted (I saw him on two different TV station news reports) as saying "we have no intention of enforcing that ordinance". I try real hard to stay under 20 mph, but the nutty-*** traffic around here requires that we keep a lot sharper eye on cagers than on the speed-o-stat. I topped 30 coming down Gates Pass on Sunday with the motor off, if they try to put the pinch on me for being under the (auto) speed limit with no motor running, there's going to be a (legal) battle.
     
  10. spunout

    spunout Member

    i get that. what i'm trying to find out from them, is this:
    "If you exceed 20 mph you are no longer covered under this exemption - this means you will be treated as a moped"
    i havent gotten any anyswer to this, as far as where they get jurisdiction.
    i asked if city council approved this, or is this just something the police dept took upon themselves to enact. so far, nobody i have spoken with knows for sure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  11. krash

    krash Guest

    It WAS ratified at the city council level.

    That said I am still trying to register my 49cc but the law WILL NOT ALLOW IT,

    then i STATED THAT IF I GO 21 THE BIKE THEN FALLS INTO THE NEXT CATEGORY OF MOPEDs/ MOTORCYCLEs, T.P.D/ TRAFFIC LIASON OFFICER TOLD ME YES.

    SO I SAY " THEN I LIKE TO LICENSE IT AND BE LEGAL"

    i WAS TOLD "no" NOT WITHOUT CHANGING THE LAW.

    i BROUGHT UP THE BIG THREE (NE REG, LICENSE, AND INSURANCE) BECAUSE NOW I AM AUTOMATICALLY UPRATED FROM ONE CATEGORY TO THE NEXT.
    SHE SAYS THE SHE UNDERSTANDS AND WISHES SHE COULD HELP, And that she agrees that for 1 mile over there really is no reason to be pulled over.

    Now, the next category in the STATE LAW SAYS something about going 25 and over, between 20 and 25 there is no clear over lap. If the cop is going to uprate me give me the legal legs to respond with due course, REG, TITLE, LICENSE, INSURANCE

    OH AND NO ONE WILL INSURE A MOTORED BICYCLE CAUSE IT IS NOT A VEHICLE.

    THE LAW SHOULD HAVE BE WRITTEN SO THAT WE CAN GO UP TO 24 IN THE CITY LIMITS AND THE NEXT GROUPING WOULD THEN PICK UP AT 25.

    AND THERE ARE NO CLEAR LAWS THAT STATE WHAT WILL HAPPEN OTHER THAN A FINE OF NO LESS THAN 100 AND ANY OTHER FINE THAT COME AS DIRECT RESAULT OF BEING PULLED OVER ie> NOT STOPPING AT SIGNS, RUNNING LIGHTS, ....., NOT IMPOUND, NOT NO LICENSE HIT......EVEN IF YOU ARE GOING 21.

    DAY 7, FOUR DMV OFFICIALS, 1 LEVEL 2-3 INSPECTOR, ONE TRAFFIC LIASON PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER, TWO INSUARNCE GROUPS LATER!

    THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE BETTER PART OF MY LUNCH TIMES ON THE PHONE AND AT THE MAIN OFFICE OF dmv STATE LEVEL, THEY THOUGHT i WAS CRAZY WITH ALL THIS MOTORED BIKE PROBLEMS COULD NOT BELIVE COPS WOULD BOTHER WITH THAT

    IT WAS EVEN TOLD TO ME THAT WE SHOULD GATHER THE NAMES OF THESE PATROL PEOPLE AND GO TO INTERNAL AFFAIRS OR THE CITY COUNCILS NEXT MEETING WITH PROOF OF HARRASMENT, LOL LOL LOL I ALMOST CHOKED UP MY BREAKFAST WHEN I GOT THAT ANSWER "FROM THE T.P.D. OFFICE THEM SELVES" WOW!
     
  12. Torques

    Torques Guest

    They don't give a ****.
     
  13. krash

    krash Guest

    I know TORQUES, just got to try. I don't need or want the stupid cop / stupid human encounters that will come from dealing with these patrolman that have nothing better to do.

    If we get in front of the law instead of head to head I/ we can bring LIGHT to the eyes of those in charge and have them rein in their dumb dogs and get them to pull folks over for talking and texting while driving.

    I almost got ran off the road by some tramp casue she was texting on phone, talking via blue tooth , drinking soda, changing lanes with no signals, speeding in construction zone, so happy I was in my big truck, not my bike.
     
  14. Dockspa1

    Dockspa1 Guest

    Don't give up Torques! Anything from the press? Maybe titled " How our fine city waste our tax money" or maybe " Does our city make new laws as they need them".
    Remember torques that news paper I wrote you about, who doesn't care for the local politics.
    Doc
     
  15. flyer1

    flyer1 Guest

    simply nonsense

    I did some research on this issue.AZ. HB 2796 Has an ammendment which is 28-2516.No bicycle thats under 48cc can be considered a moped and you cannot be ticketed for driving without a license.No city ordinance can supercede a state law,period.I had a lenghty discussion with a sarg at our p.d. here in Lake Havasu (very strict here).He was adamant that I would have no problems and can ride anywhere in town that a regular bike could go which was arelief because the local bikeshop told me I could only ride on <30mph zones which only applies to go-peds here anyway.I'm patiently awaiting my R/S 35,should arrive monday.Next I'll get to my introduction:grin: The officer did say you must abide by all traffic laws and the 20 mph speed limit or be subject to traffic tickets,I can live with that.I would urge all az'ers to google the above bill numbers and read the info.I tried to copy/paste,but I'm pretty comp. challenged.Thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2007
  16. spunout

    spunout Member



    ok, i have all that. but where does it say that? i read the amendment just fine, but where does it say a bike CANT be considered a moped? where does it say you CANNOT be ticketed for driving a moped? i'm not finding that part.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2007
  17. flyer1

    flyer1 Guest

    regarding az state laws

    I did some research on this as I was considering a kit.No court or cop in az can charge you for anything other than traffic violations on a motor driven bicycle with an engine 48cc or under.House bill 2796 has been ammended 28-2516 and clearly states this.I had a lengthy discussion today with a local saergent here in havasu and he told me emphatically you can take that outfit anywhere you would take a regular bicyclehttp://www.azleg.gov/legtext/47leg/2r/bills/hb2796s.htm-This address will show you the exact verbage and no local municipality can supercede state law.I know many of you are aware of this,I will print out the house bill and carry it with me even though the officer told me he never heard of a guy on a power assist bike even getting a ticket and Lake Havasu traffic enforcement is tough as we much less crime and only 50,000 people.Regards....Bill P
     
  18. flyer1

    flyer1 Guest

    aforementioned statute clarrification

    no license,no reg,no insuranse needed,lines 5-7b clearly state this right?


    5. A driver license is not required to operate a motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle.

    6. A motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle may use rights-of-way designated for the exclusive use of bicycles.

    7. A motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle is not subject to chapter 9 of this title.

    B. this section does not prohibit a local authority from adopting an ordinance that regulates or prohibits the operation of motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles, except that a local authority shall not adopt an ordinance that requires registration and licensing of motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles.

    C. For the purposes of this section, "motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with a helper motor that has a maximum piston displacement of forty-eight cubic centimeters or less, that may also be self-propelled and that is operated at speeds of less than twenty miles per hour.----I have a flyer from the police dept that differentiates "mopeds from "Power assisted bikes" it covers gopeds golfcarts and pocketbikes.I could be wrong but all you deserve is a speeding ticket.Regards
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2007
  19. twinkiex

    twinkiex Guest

    I ride through the city of Tucson everyday and I agree with law. It would be so dangerous to exceed 20mph. Almost everyday at some point an idiot tries to bypass the line of traffic by trying to turn right in the bike lane, then I come buzzing along slam on my brakes and have to stop and pull my bike up on the curb because I get run off the road.
    Usually I just ignore it, sometimes I cheerfully explain what the bike lane is for and sometimes I yell.
    I think I need one of those big orange flags.
     
  20. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    Then Pedal ..

    Rotate your pedals then.. If bicycles are exempt from this 20mph law.. then.. Pedal.. Even though it is effortless.. Rotate them.. I am no Lawyer.. But.. If a Bicycle can exceed the 20mph barrier. Then.. It would seem to me as though you would have to be pedaling as a bicycle to be legal. Anytime you want to exceed the 20mph barrier, you better be pedaling. That is my take..
     
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