Pope John Paul II: Crossing the Threshold of Hope

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by sparky, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    http://www.hismercy.ca/content/ebooks/Pope.John.Paul.II-Crossing the Threshold of Hope.pdf

    So, earlier today, I was searching for this quote I remember John Paul stating... something about how hope is not an empty term; it is actually your willingness to see your dreams manifest before your eyes. I can't remember how the actual quote went, so I haven't actually found the quote -- yet -- but I found this book instead. It got me thinking again, which is always good.

    Perhaps you guys could highlight the parts you like best, because I'm sure there's room for lovin' across the table. He certainly makes a great many points that are founded in reality. I haven't read a tenth of the book yet, but he sure responds like you'd expect an all-knowing Pope to respond.

    I dedicate this thread to scokes, who longs for a religious topic, and SS, who longs for proof. Former Pope JP sure does make a good many logical interpretations, interpolations from what I can see. He makes some pretty broad jumps every once in awhile, but if you play along.... he does grasp his religion better than any other Christian I've seen. Just try to ignore the other, ancient religions who portray a god that is born of a virgin birth, dies for 3 days, then rises into Heaven, among other similarities. Ignore that bit while you read some of his answers. It almost makes religion seem like a good thing. :devilish:

    I've always respected JP for his Theology of the Body, which I'll have to save for another day. I'd just like the topic to stick to traditional religious aspects for now. Any thoughts on His Holiness' book?
     

  2. scokes

    scokes Member

    Just opened this up and glanced at it. The only question he hasn't answered that I noticed right off the bat, is this. "Does this hat make my head look big?"

    Thanks for the dedication Sparky. You are correct.

    I had a discussion with my daughter yesterday. She was doing fairly bad in Bible class, but has now brought her grade back up. Here is the jist of the discussion.

    This question was posed in her Bible class as homework. "List three examples of God manifesting himself into a physical object to tell someone what to do." I asked her how she answered.

    1. The burning bush. "Fine, good answer. What else?" I said.

    But then she couldn't give me anything else. And I for life of me couldn't think of anything either.

    MountainMan, here is your time to shine. Refresh my memory. Until then, I will be reading the Pontiff's prolific paper with the prospect of possible "proof".
     
  3. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Well, accepting as fact that they are real (which I'll do when I see them), the Tablets of the Law Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai ought to qualify. Then there is the "finger of god", writing in fiery letters "Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin" on the wall, allegedly foretelling the destruction of Babylon.

    Then there is the story in Joshua claiming the rotation of the earth stopped, making a daylight period that lasted 24 hours longer than it ought to have been. Of course, I'd say that the "rain of fire" on Sodom and Gomorrah was pretty physical.

    All of this, of course, is if you accept those stories as true.
     
  4. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    #1 - Creation
    #2 - Jesus
    #3 - Burning Bush
    #4 - All humans, because we are all created in God's image and all have the Holy Spirit (or was it Jesus?) within each and every one of us.

    Am I right? Or am I right?
     
  5. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    you are wrong

    only the saved have the Holy Spirit

    thus most others with out the Spirit as the Bible says are blinded

    until God removes those blinders
    one will not see -- believe -- no matter what

    a good prayer is
    please remove the blinders from my eyes heart and soul
    so that I may see and understand the truth

    MM
     
  6. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    No, sir. You are most definitely wrong.

    http://www.who-is-jesus.com/jesusis/jesusis.htm

    Just search for the term heart and see how many times it says something like "within everyone's earthly heart". Here's one example: "At this time Jesus patently waits within every ones earthly heart to go through death and resurrection with each one of us."

    You need to go back to studying the Bible, MM. You're missing the WHOLE MESSAGE! Focusing on the End Times, Rapture, Armageddon, etc. is not what Jesus wanted people to get stuck into. I know, because Jesus is within my heart :tt1: ... and I know this because the Bible says it numerous times!
     
  7. suspect

    suspect Member

    yikes:shock:

    wouldnt the bible qualify as a manifestation of god in an object?

    who cares its all bull**** anyway, im nominally catholic, but its been over 15 years since i 'saw the dark'
     
  8. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    Spanky Im not even going to click on your GOD hate anymore....

    Maybe the new guy will be interested...
     
  9. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    devils got yet another one -- praying troops report

    that's one heck of a testimony you got going on there

    looks like we have been given yet another one
    to pray for boys

    bring them on -- it's Sunday -- a great day to pray for others to see the LIGHT

    wishing a blessed day to all -- from - MM
     
  10. suspect

    suspect Member

    its monday for me, 7am, off to work soon, and thank you mountainman, ive never seen a christian refer to christians as 'boys' i got a mental image of a guy in a red plaid shirt with a straw hanging out his mouth waving his cowboy hat an clicking his heels(that have spurs) with a yeehaw splittin his country fried face.

    hilarious, im still having trouble believing you are real.
     
  11. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    sorry to say -- only the saved

    Matthew 3:11 (Show Matthew 3)
    "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

    Mark 3:29 (Show Mark 3)
    but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-

    Luke 1:67 (Show Luke 1)
    Zechariah's Prophecy
    And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied, saying,

    Luke 12:10 (Show Luke 12)
    And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

    Acts 2:38 (Show Acts 2)
    And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

    spankonesself -- don't sould like all just have the Spirit ??

    MM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  12. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    How could an agnostic possibly hate God? Explain that!!
     
  13. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    Then how to you explain the link I offered you earlier? The Bible is full of contradictions. Have you ever just tried Googling "contradictions in the bible"??


    If you did, you'd find out that The One is supposed to be a descendant of David. Joseph is a descendant of David... but Joseph is NOT Jesus's father. Therefore, Jesus was not The One. You can find other ones, but that's one I'll never be able to forget. The Bible is not the inerrant word of God, MM. Get over it.
     
  14. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    I wouldn't go that far... you dont know who authored the Bible, and surely don't know if they were divinely inspired. None of us do... so why bother debating it anymore???

    The fact that traditionally Joseph didnt father JESUS directly with his seed does not have anything to do with JESUS's divinity. Only the claim that JESUS would come from David. Due to the fact that Mary was Jewish don't you think it is possible she could be from King David's blood line???

    Compare the actions of JESUS with those of other religious figures... I think it is very possible to conclude that his actions and behaviors would be that of GOD incarnate. Seriously think about what he did and said.... nothing he did was self centered, everything was for the good of society as a whole. Nothing he did would have brought him earthly riches or glory.... why would the SON of GOD need any??? Seriously think about JESUS vs. muhammed, or joseph smith, jim jones or any other human claiming to be divine. All the others had money, power, revenge, or women as the end result of what they preached.
     
  15. suspect

    suspect Member

    ahahahaahahah, thats awesome.

    actually you sound as if you havnt read the bible, i have read the 4 testaments and a fair bit of revelations, and i grew up going to bible class of course, and one thing that strikes me is that jesus hardly ever let up about honouring him and doing things for him, most of the pharisee laws he overturned had to do with him wanting to drink alcohol and eat certain foods on their religious holidays... dolt.
     
  16. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    What actions? It's not on YouTube, so how do I know if he actually walked on water or not? They're stories mostly written by people who never SAW Jesus! They only heard a story told by another story-teller, told by another story-teller, and some of them merely copied an author and added their own little twist. Revelations and the Gospel of John are by far the most twisted of all the Gospels. So, how can you "compare the actions of Jesus" to anybody?!?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle
    Elbert Hubbard makes a lotta sense, no?

    Well, I don't believe that Jesus actually claimed to be God. That's the problem. In fact, he even claimed he WASN'T God! You can see my research here: http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=235233&postcount=10
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  17. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    the Koran was written the same way as the Bible... collective writings of generational stories. I dont see you bashing it???

    The point was to compare the best evidence we have of JESUS to that of others that try to lead people to heaven. Please... honestly and in an open minded way make the comparisons yourself.

    I would start by reading the koran first. Since act like you are such a religious expert... I would at least educate yourself. Your Bible skills could use a little work too... been a while since Catholic school???
     
  18. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    That should be "the most twisted of all the NT books", rather, since Revelations isn't a Gospel.

    Anyway, I kinda remember my religion teacher in the 12th grade telling me that John wrote Revelations when he was sick. I can't find any in-depth detail other than he was a prisoner on the Isle of Patmos. This isn't the same John that wrote the Gospel of John. The Isle of Patmos was full of people dying from Yellow Fever at the time, and this one guy (below) says that some historians believe John of Patmos was indeed sick. The story was more than likely a fever dream that he decided to write down like I did a few nights ago.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061117131502AA9kPYX

    Can't find a whole lo more than that, but more than likely, that's the case.
     
  19. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    So were the revelations of muhammad a fever dream too???
     
  20. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    Well, there's no need to. You guys do enough Koran bashing for all of us. :devilish:

    Why would I discuss the Koran at all? Nobody here is a Muslim. You guys believe in Christianity, the Holy Bible, etc... so why not stick to the Bible for now?

    I've gotta feeling that by the time I'm done... you're still gonna have a "so what" attitude like you usually do.

    WHAT EVIDENCE OF JESUS!?!? You keep saying there's evidence, yet you don't show me nuffin'. In 11th grade, we were told there were 4 secular historians who mentioned Jesus. Plenty the Younger, Suetonius, Tacitus, & Josephus. The first three never use the name Jesus AT ALL, and they only use a few sentences at best to describe Christ, Chrestus, or Christus... which only means "The Anointed One". The last historian's writings, Josephus', had actually been tainted by Christian scribes, and this has been known for hundreds of years...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
    Jesus had a brother?!? Holy ****!!

    It has been a while. Yes. What skills could use some work?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2015
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