possible idea for variable speed belt drive

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/variable-speed-drives.aspx


was the first result from google... theres lots of them out there and ebay is a source of cheap ones, possibly. 5/8 is a standard shaft size, and most pulleys with a "standard" size shaft will already have a keyway.


theres a few varieties, some use manual shifting, such as on bandsaws and other industrial machines(that can be adjusted on the run, instantly, unlike that scooter one...but i guess you pay for them!), some are self adjusting... as the belt loads up, it tends to "sink" into the pulley sheave, and forces it apart, down into low gear, with the tensioner taking up the slack, but varying the tension on the belt, with a fairly strong spring in the pulley, will do the same thing... the pulley spring just has to be strong enough not to spread by itself under full load :)


i have it in a book somewhere, but im not looking for that! or scanning it if i found it... "bicyclers bible " FYI ;) and i did once find it on the net, but...now i cant be bothered looking :p

it was an automatic shift CVT for a bicycle, around about 1970 judging by the books age... i shall endeavour to explain it now but :)

a small sprocket was driven off the chainring. this sprocket was set in slots, so if the sprocket was "locked", it would try to rotate with the chainring along these slots.

this sprocket was connected to a split/variable pulley. it had some type of wedge affair so as the sprocket and pulley tried to rotate with chainring under load (locking the sprocket basically) the pulley would spread and drive in low gear. there was obviously another pulley, that then ran chain to the rear wheel.

as the load decreases, ie... as youre getting faster and dont have to pedal so hard, it would start shifting smoothly into a higher gear, keeping the load on the pedals fairly consistent.

it would always start in high gear, but the torque created by simply taking off would always shift it to a lower gear.

yes, it was just designed for pedalling but the basic idea is quite simple really, and easily adopted to motorised power.

(i recall one person showing a picture of his leg after having a (motorised) autoshift system fail that shifted into low... allowing the engine to rev out and drive the wheel with lots of torque...really unsafe. they should always shift to high gear if anything goes wrong, just like truck, train and forklift brakes are activated by a loss of pressure... or vacuum depending on the setup)

you would want yours to have enough slack if your tensioner system broke, to either slip or yup...allow the pulley to go into high gear...




theres a chain driven CVT out there, used on industrial machines. works exactly the same way as a standard variable pulley, just uses a chain ;) the chain is rather unique and is the key to the whole affair :giggle: the pulley has teeth ;)

and theres been plenty of weird and wonderful patents over the last 100 years or so for bicycles :)
 
The bike is automatic and will remain so after switching to belt drive. If anything should go wrong, releasing the throttle will slow the bike down and hitting the kill switch will shut it off. I plan on controlling the belt tension manually (an automatic that shifts manually? Don't know what to call that, lol), but idle or engaged will still be controlled via the centrifugal clutch. Part of the reason I chose to control it manually is to reduce the chance of anything going wrong with the variator. The variator can't malfunction unless the shifter malfunctions (assuming it's all put together and set up correctly).
 
Instead of a variator ( reconsidering the two speed), what about a second centrifugal clutch? Keeping the clutch I have on the crankshaft and adding a belt clutch with a (fixed) pulley diameter of 3.2 with a 16" rear sheave would give me an overall ratio of 12.7:1. Any advantage/disadvantage as far as engagement/acceleration/torque?
 
You could make that work, but the slower gear would have to freewheel. Or else the different ratios would be fighting each other, which would lock the wheel. That would be pretty complicated IMHO; you would have to make a second output shaft somehow.

If you're fine with shifting manually, get a stepped v-belt pulley. These are the ones on drill presses and can be bought at a hardware store for $25.
image.jpg

You would have to shift manually, by getting off the bike and derailing the belt by hand. And If you're only using 2 speeds on the pulley there wouldn't be enough misalignment to be a problem, but if you use more than that you would have to loosen off the set screw slightly so the stepped pulley can slide up and down the shaft (keeping the belt aligned).
 
To clarify, one centrifugal clutch would be on the crankshaft, where it is now, and the other would be on the jackshaft output to rear wheel. I am just thinking if they are set to engage at same rpm or close (can be determined with spring strength, I would just order another of the same spring that is in my clutch now), then double the clutching means half the load on each clutch, so less wear, smoother takeoff and possibly a little more torque? If I can take off from a dead stop with no clutch chatter, then I can probably climb moderate hills without my clutch slipping. That's really all I'm looking for.
 
To clarify, one centrifugal clutch would be on the crankshaft, where it is now, and the other would be on the jackshaft output to rear wheel. I am just thinking if they are set to engage at same rpm or close (can be determined with spring strength, I would just order another of the same spring that is in my clutch now), then double the clutching means half the load on each clutch, so less wear, smoother takeoff and possibly a little more torque? If I can take off from a dead stop with no clutch chatter, then I can probably climb moderate hills without my clutch slipping. That's really all I'm looking for.

This is an idea that your talking about. http://www.blackwidowmotorsports.net/_13132r_two_speed_transmission_kit_68_69.html

WayneZ had built a good 2 speed variator transmission, based on a 99cc Predator. His YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpHxy1rcqBk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUogRhWf-NKeSqD5qbRQPX-g

Here's his post. I don't know if you can read them or not: http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=35942

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 
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That comet clutch is completely different from my idea. That's just one clutch with two sprockets. I'm talking about using two different clutches, one chain drive on the crankshaft, the other belt drive on the jackshaft output. Basically, the first clutch is for my primary chain drive and the second is for my secondary belt drive pulley.
 
That comet clutch is completely different from my idea. That's just one clutch with two sprockets. I'm talking about using two different clutches, one chain drive on the crankshaft, the other belt drive on the jackshaft output. Basically, the first clutch is for my primary chain drive and the second is for my secondary belt drive pulley.

Look again. The kit included 2 clutches - a 12t engine clutch and a 13t driven clutch. It uses 2 chains.

Here's an illustration showing how the setup works:
2Speed.jpg


You can make your own.

Good Luck,

Chris
AKA: BigBlue
 
I really like the idea of the two speed primary chain drive. If I can find a 5/8 bore belt pulley, can I use it with a secondary belt drive? Any idea where to get the parts for cheaper than the kit? The kit is $275. I would like not to pay over $100 or maybe $150 at the most because I still have to pay about $50 for the rear sheave and I don't know what yet for the pulley.
 
I have one of those cranks prob is cant pedel unles mot runing need free wheel on mot i think mite try pully on crk&mot spring tens on belt clutch lev to release tens then ped think it will work gona try to make hybred gas elec. See what haps i know geting heavy but what the hell wont be so bad with lith bat cops around here are funny about gas james frm nola
 
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