Proof -- USA Founded on Christian Principles

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Mountainman, Nov 10, 2009.


do you agree ??

  1. yes

    10 vote(s)
  2. no

    4 vote(s)
  1. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

  2. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    All that proves is that the individuals involved were graduates of a seminary. It proves nothing about their religious beliefs, and even where their beliefs are know, it proves nothing about the founding principles of this nation.

    In this case it is not A = B = C. It is A implies B not equal to C.
  3. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    you didn't even have time to watch the whole thing -- did you SS ?????
    because beyond a doubt
    I think that it more than proves it

    of course from reading the Bible
    we do know
    that some are blinded no matter what
    God made them that way
    such as Pharaoh -- after what he saw he still didn't believe

  4. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    it is fact
    after fact
    after fact
    after fact
    after fact
    after fact
    after fact

    and still SS can not see ------------------------- it is a sad THING !!!
  5. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    It is assumption piled upon supposition predicated upon pre-existing notions.

    Yet still mountainman preaches delusional magical beliefs.
  6. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    it is
    on and on and on and on ------ you just don't want to admit you are so so SS wrong
  7. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    where is the proof supporting your position???
  8. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    I need none other than the Constitution and treaties and laws of this nation from that period, vtec. I'm not making claims, I'm rebutting MM's.
  9. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    over 95 % of all who signed were Christians
    followers of Christ
    they prayed in Congress
    they printed Bibles for schools
    they had prayer in schools
    they wtote hundreds and hundreds of articles
    stating that this country is to follow Christ

    SS did not even watch the facts shown on the many videos
    he is blinded and needs much prayer
    according to the Bible it would not matter what facts SS saw or heard because as follows

    2 Corinthians 4:4 (Show 2 Corinthians 4)
    In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    John 12:40 (Show John 12)
    “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”
  10. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    if you want people like ss to take you serious you need to post links to the articles you talk about.

    SS... by refusing mm's argument you indirectly make the opposite claim that the founding fathers were not Christians. If you want people like me or MM to take you serious you need to provide proof of your supposition.

    I am going to go back and check out mm's links.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  11. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    the gentleman knows history

    thank you -- that is all that I am asking
    listen to the proof for yourself
    the gentleman knows history 10 times better than all of us together !!!!

    so that means he knows about 100 times more than SS regarding this matter
    yet SS wants to spew his false beliefs
    without even studing the evidence !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Sorry, vtec, but you are incorrect. I do not, directly or indirectly, make any claim at all.

    I reference the Constitution, the Acts of Congress, and the Treaties of that period to evaluate his claim. Feel free to do the same. Most especially examine the establishment clause of the Constitution, and the Treaty with Tripoli.

    I have no doubt that many of the founders viewed themselves as christians, nor have I any doubt that much of our law derives directly from judaic code through the common law basis we adopted from England. I also know from study of the Federalist papers and the personal writings of the primary authors of the Constitution that they were very careful to set up a secular nation, with no national identification with any particular religion or sect. The treaty with Tripoli explicitly states that as fact, it was ratified by the US Senate, which required a 2/3 majority vote, then signed into law by President J. Adams on June 10th, 1797.

    Many of the Senators ratifying the treaty were themselves founders of this nation, members of the constitutional convention which drafted the Constitution. The pertinent section of the Treaty is:
  13. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    MM, you are a most presumptious and arrogant little fellow.

    You know nothing whatsoever about the extent or the limits of my knowledge, yet you presume to pronounce judgment upon that subject of your speculation.

    I've looked at those links, and if you parse out what is actually said, they prove nothing about the principles upon which this nation was founded, except to make absolutely clear that to the best of their ability the drafters and framers of the Constitution were careful to totally separate religion from government.

    My "beliefs" are not beliefs at all - they are facts supported unequivocally by historical record. Your beliefs are supported by an extended historical novel presuming to be "divinely" inspired. For that to be true, you first must demonstrate the existence of a "divinity". Which you cannot do.
  14. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    Pharaoh -- after what he saw he still didn't believe.

    Good jab MM! He certainly lost everything! They think they may have found his charriots in the Sea from Moses crossing... Don't forget the end of the story either tho, MM... Why didn't Moses enter the land of Milk and Honey?

    Many people came to America for varrious reasons, (arguing a little on Simon's behalf)... My family (while Christian) came here to get away from Spain. They were from the Neatherlands circa (1600)... They fought valiantly against Spain and got out in the nich of time to avoid be hunted and killed. England latter defeated Spain and a small percentage actually moved back, only to find English rule worse than Spanish! As word spread back to the Colonies and England set it's sights upon us, my family here, just wasn't having it!

    While many others came here to pratice religion freely and as they wished, many of the religions practiced were of Pagonistic sort of Christianity.

    In consideration of all arguments, I must conclude that If America was founded upon any belief, It certainly wasn't Islam!
  15. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I voted "yes"
  16. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    I get a real kick out of the whole God argument…

    Believers say they believe upon Faith, unless you are like me and had a few things happen… I guess that would still be faith, in consideration of string theory and its randomness.

    Agnostics and Atheists however set their argument upon absolute lack of scientific evidence. They denounce faith in anything making their argument devoid of anything all together.

    Certainly the believers argument has more merit from the get go. At least they are willing to tell you there may be no provable evidence but no lack of circumstantial happenings. Agnostics and Atheists expect you to believe in something that’s plain not there (void), with no supporting evidence at all.

    Even Stephen Hawkins suggested that this Universe is so perfect that the mathematical odds of life are beyond human comprehension. I.E., if the speed of light were off by a nanosecond, the Universe would not exist as we know it…

    Why not waste time arguing??? We’ve already hit the Mega-Millions a thousand times in a row!!!
  17. eastwoodo4

    eastwoodo4 Member

    the title of the thread is,u.s FOUNDED on christian PRINCIPLES.i would have to say yes.

    on another note,it was definitely founded on the belief in god!what do you say to that ss?
  18. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    As much as we pick on you Simon, we love ya! Your a gentleman and scholar!
  19. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    "A gentleman and a scholar"?

    I am neither, nor have I ever aspired to be either.

    Marty, you clearly fail to understand agnosticism - which isn't unusual amongst believers of any stripe. As an agnostic I don't "believe" in anything, not even your hypothetical void.

    I do not believe, period. I'd truly like to know, but to date have seen no credible evidence of any gods existence. By evidence I do not mean your great aunt Tilly's vision of Jesus in her bowl of stewed tomatoes and macaroni - which is about what every "miracle" amounts to. Anecdotes are stories, not evidence.
  20. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    I think these two videos pretty much settles any arguement.

    Whenever people with religious conviction start debating or trying to defend their position, more hot air is created than could be produced by the Sahara Desert.

    I've spent quite a bit of time researching religion.
    These videos condense everything into quite a neat package.
    You'll need to set aside 2 hours for each video - having said that, you'll recieve an excellent education in judaic religion.