pull over

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by undercover bluebird, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. so i got pulled over today here in Illinois, the cop was cool he just told me he stopped me because i was going over the "legal limit" of 20mph and i was going 33. anyone else got stop for speeding

  2. butre

    butre Well-Known Member

    I got stopped for 45 in a 35 once. he just let me off with a warning and asked the regular questions about my bike.
  3. Wolfshoes

    Wolfshoes Member

    A central Illinois appellate court made a ruling; the 20 mph begins when the motor takes over from the pedal start. If you pedal to 13 mph, you are allowed a 20 mph boost to 33 mph in my opinion of the ruling. There are 5 appellate districts in Illinois and this ruling only clearly applies to the Decatur district. However this could be a strong enough argument to be accepted by other areas in Illinois. I have talked to my town police chief in northern Illinois and without reviewing the ruling, accepted it as a local rule of law. I ride down main street in the lane of traffic at over 20 mph without any problem. My bike only goes 25-28 mph and the speed limit through town is 30 mph. I would rather be riding at 30 mph and keep up with traffic. In Illinois, in my opinion, it is important that the bike be seen pedaled from a dead stop without help from the motor to be safe from licensing and insurance issues. I use both dual pull c brakes and the coaster brake at the same time to stop the beach cruiser. Riding over 20 mph could be a local privilege that may be gone if something is hit with the bike. I am attempting to post the pdf of the Decatur Appellate ruling 2012 4110593_R23 as posted in the Laws and Legislation section of Motorbicycling.com; but the attached file or link are not appearing in this preview. I carry a copy of this ruling when I ride to make this argument if I am stopped; which has not happened yet.

    Attached Files:

  4. thanks wolf imma read it and use it to my to protect me if i get stopped again
    i top out around 35mph and the limit here is usually 30 and i too like to flow with traffic rather than be riding slow and have them fly by me .and they them i mean the people in cars the seem not to care about us guys on bikes
  5. johnsteve

    johnsteve Member

    I am from Illinios and its interesting. I have gone 60 on my bicycle downhill and would do 30 no problem on the straight aways in my younger years. I am not really sure I would want to go 90 or 60 on my motorized bicycle though. I would be intereted to see if that appelate court has any sway in any other counties.

    for the record I try not to do above 20mph. I am just parinoid I guess
  6. the problem is that 20 for me seem dangerous just for the sole purpose that when your on the the street going with traffic i find it to be an issue when cars fly by you with no respect. while when i go 30 witch is usually the main speed limit it my area i stay with the flow and have no problem or feel like im in danger
  7. DJS

    DJS New Member

    You're absolutely right bluebird. When a you're on a bike and going slower than traffic, drivers tend to get impatient and start to do crap like pulling in front of you when they want to turn right. Then you're forced to either break very fast or do a barrel role over the top of the car when you crash into it. But when you're going with the flow of traffic it seems to buy you a measure of respect from the drivers and they will usually fall back and stay behind you until they reach the street they want to turn on.

    Now the next fear that you must endure when you are going fast enough to keep up with traffic are the morons quickly pulling out of driveways into moving traffic without even looking for someone on a bike. So now you're going too fast to break or get out of their way when they dart out in front of you without looking. In this case if you don't have lightening fast reflexes and you're not 100% aware of what's going on in front and around you at all times, the possibility of that barrel role over the top of a car becomes all too real.
    KenM likes this.
  8. JunkyardDog

    JunkyardDog Active Member

    Here in AZ the speed limit for a MB is 20 mph, regardless of the speed limit for any other type of vehicle. 20 mph is already way too fast for the single speed coaster brake Walmart bikes most people build motorized bikes out of. MBs are NOT designed to keep up with traffic. They are intended to be ridden to the far right, same as a pedal bike. We are in danger of losing the great MB laws we have because we have so many irresponsible riders here. And every time one has an accident, or is stopped by a cop, they become another piece of ammunition for politicians who would love to make motorized bikes completely illegal.
    KenM likes this.
  9. i understand that its still a bike and yes i do have a cranbrook frame but i have replace the hubs to better suit my speeds. its just hard to stay going at 20 mph when you have car who don't even acknowledge you on the road. why do you think most people who ride regular bike are always on the side walk instead on the road off to the side . Cause cars think they are the only one who are allowed on it. That is why i prefer exceeding the 20 mph limit and travel with the flow of traffic . because at least they feel like im not "slowing them down " and make them feel the need to just cut me off and pass me with less than a foot of space . i haven't ridden a mb for long maybe about 5 months now and i have read and studied about everything i could to prepare my bike and my self for the use of it. now that being said i have ridden a normal bike for a long time and i think we all have but even on a bike cruising on a bike on the side of the road like how your suppose to its just as dangerous. just the other day i came up on an accident where a person got hit by a careless car when they were on their way home and they were on the side of the road travailing with traffic and not on the side walk because it was filled with pedestrians. so my argument is not on how fast you can go on the motorbike its just how dangerous it is period being on a mb or a normal bike you can still fall get hit or any of the numerous thing that could happen . and i just think that law maker are just mad that people found a way to not pay for insurance , tags, title ,and or any other means or paper works that would line their pockets with money. i believe that its all about money and little to do with safety .now there a few politicians out there that care but its very few out there
    KenM and DJS like this.
  10. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

    I have been riding a bicycle all my life, and I still log several thousands of miles each year pedalling. I can witness that I am treated much better on a motorbike than on a roadbike. There's no substitute for experience. Take the lane when you have to (which is about half the time) and yield space when it works for you. Don't hug the edge of the roadway on any bicycle, motored or not, and yield to cars (move farther to the right) and motion to them when a safe pass is possible. I guess I am proposing a kind of control of traffic. The more you can control the traffic around you, the safer you will be.
    KenM and DJS like this.
  11. JunkyardDog

    JunkyardDog Active Member

    I still say a MB should be ridden just like a regular bike, only difference is you don't have to pedal. If the area you are riding in is not safe to ride a regular bike in, then it is not safe for a motorized bike either. My opinion is that if you need speeds over 20 mph, then you need a faster bike. I tried to ride a 50cc scooter around my local area, and ran into all kinds of trouble, and was almost hit several times. A 50cc scooter goes 40 mph. The speed limit on local streets is 45 mph, but everybody goes 55. So I was in serious danger on my scooter. I even had one dude in a lifted truck drive up on the sidewalk to get around me, blowing the horn and flipping me off. My answer was a 150cc scooter. It topped out at about 60 mph, but would keep up with traffic in town. I also have a Suzuki DR200 dual sport motorcycle. But it is not much fun in traffic, you are constantly shifting up and down. The scooter requires no shifting. As for the insurance and registration, both the scooter and motorcycle cost $20 a year each to register, and about $35 a year each to insure. So that is only $55 a year to operate an actual motorcycle. Pretty insignificant IMO. I rarely ride my MB in town anyway. Just enough to get out of town. There are thousands of miles of local rural roads within 100 miles of where I live, with a speed limit of 65 mph. I ride my MB on the shoulders of these roads, as do many Tour de France type riders. I wear bright colors, but not spandex. In other words, I use the MB mostly for recreational use. Before I became disables at age 54, I used to ride one to work and back, 5 miles each way. But there were nice wide bike lanes the whole way. I do understand the problem. I have been hit a couple of times while riding in the bike lane, by the mirrors on large vehicles. Luckily I did not crash. My only crash on an MB was caused by the bike itself, when the chain tensioner/idler/whatever you call it got pulled into the rear wheel, locking it up. I was riding at less than 10 mph at the time. It would have been far more serious at 30 mph, possibly even fatal, as I was riding in a bike lane right next to 55 mph traffic. Fortunately I went down on the sidewalk side.
  12. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

    Speed is your friend. I live in a large metro area where most roads have speed limits of 25mph or 35 mph. A cruise of 25 or more is enough to allow you the power to take the lane. Even on my roadbike, a good cruise in the flats of 22 to 25 mph gives me a good cushion to be among all the other traffic. Moving slowly tucked in along the very edge of the road is not good, safe riding technique.

    Everyone has a glorified idea of what motorcycling is, but the reality is STOP AND GO, just like in a car. That's why the vast majority of motorcyclists play on their bikes, riding just a few miles between beer and food stops. Add in the heat, the cold, the constant wind, the a$$hole drivers, the rain(!) and motorcycling is not for you.

    My advice to all on motorbike or bicycles: take the lane and keep your head on a swivel. Look the drivers in the eye and do your best to take control of traffic flow and conflicts. By pointing and waving, tell the cagers what to do! They will almost always cooperate because they want you out of the way.
    DJS likes this.
  13. DJS

    DJS New Member

    You nailed this one Timbone. In every respect. Very detailed and illustrative. I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.
    Timbone likes this.
  14. DJS

    DJS New Member

    Why do I feel like I've just been scolded? Notwithstanding the controversy surrounding the MB laws, past, present and future, it seems like there's always somebody who's angry at "all the irresponsible riders here".

    I'd like to point out that most of us who are unique enough to either build or obtain our own motorized bike, patient enough to work through the numerous pitfalls, adjustments, repairs, fine tuning and stress of maintaining a motorized bike, brave enough to ride our motorized bikes in moving traffic and intelligent enough to know how to survive the dangers of the public highways are generally NOT irresponsible! In fact, there are very few irresponsible MB riders on the streets today. Because if they are irresponsible, their life expectancy is very short.

    So please relax JunkyardDog and try not to render a blanket description/judgement on an entire group of individuals because of a few beginners. We all make mistakes and we never stop learning. Every group has a constant turnover of those who will make more mistakes than most but it's ignorant to presume that they define and/or represent the group as a whole. If you're an Arizona conservative, you should know this already. Moreover, you should possess a measure of intelligence that precludes you from making such comments and from talking down to your peers.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    undercover bluebird likes this.
  15. JunkyardDog

    JunkyardDog Active Member

    I only posted what I actually see. and that is that MOST bicycle riders around here, whether pedal or motorized (I cannot comment on other places, the situation may be different) are irresponsible, with the exception of MOST of the spandex crowd. They are usually responsible in the extreme. I could support bigger engines and faster speeds, but it would involve all the things that people view as negative about motorcycles and scooters. Require a motorcycle license, registration and license plate, and insurance. Require an inspection of the bicycle to determine if it is roadworthy at the speeds it is capable of. This is not as bad as it might seem, as you have basically crossed the line between a "motor assisted bicycle" and a motorcycle. It's not like you can't go out and build your own motorcycle and not have to go through all that stuff. I used to be a mopeder. In fact I was dead serious about it. In my state, a moped must be registered and insured, but can be ridden with an ordinary drivers license. They are limited to 30 mph, 49cc, must either have an automatic transmission or no transmission, and must have pedals, even though pedals on a true moped are woirthless. They were a lot of fun, but even at 30 mph, not safe in city traffic, as it usually goes 45-55 mph. and unlike a MB, they cannot be legally ridden in a bike lane to stay out of the way of regular traffic. Then you have what are commonly called "nopeds" which are identical to mopeds, only without the pedals. Tomos made them, as well as Honda (Express) Yamaha (Yamahopper) and Suzuki (FA50) Those bikes had the same top speed and displacement as mopeds, but due to their lack of pedals, required a full motorcycle license.

    I am getting the idea that many here are wanting a motorized bike with the same performance as a moped or motorcycle, without having to follow the laws associated with those vehicles. And no, I cannot support that. I am both a lifelong motorcyclist (over half a million miles) starting at age 8, and a lifelong cyclist (mostly on mountain bikes) The only time I ever crashed a bicycle on the street was because it was motorized (the chain tensioner got pulled into the rear wheel and locked it) I ride motorcycles both on and off road. I have never crashed a street bike. As a former 32 year employee of the City of Chandler (fleet services mechanic) I have been through the full motorcycle cop training program. I had to pay, but nowhere near what that kind of training would cost most people. One of the perks of being a long term city employee. I used to have a CDL, which my job required. I have been to the Bondurant School of High Performance Driving TWICE, and am a lifelong amateur drag racer, currently racing a V8 powered Chevy S10 that runs in the low tens. I ride and drive in local traffic on a daily basis. So yes, I do know what I am talking about.

    In AZ, motorized bike riders have virtually no responsibilities, no license, no insurance, no anything that operators of every other kind of motorized vehicle have to deal with. I think our laws are very fair. They were not meant to be unlimited. If the law was changed to allow 30 mph, I'm almost certain most would still want more. Where does it end? Everybody wants more more more, but they are not willing to pay for it. The old cliche "give someone an inch and they'll take a mile" comes to mind.

    Many people have only a pedal bike as transportation (including a good many Walmart employees) though I know one with a late model Harley FLH Ultra Classic. I think that instead of more speed, what most need is more skill. The spandex crowd (don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't know what else to call them) ride in the bike lanes, and they seem to do alright. Because they are true cycling enthusiasts, they have taken it upon themselves to acquire the skills necessary to survive in traffic on a pedal bike.
  16. Look man dk why you seem to be getting mad. I'm not saying that I don't wanna follow the law or anything in that matter but I was just saying that 20mph for me is not safe when riding on the street and I'm sorry you only fall was because of the chain tensioner getting caught but that that doesn't mean a real motorcycle or a moped or whatever is safer . and I know that a motorized bike is still a bike . I'm not asking the law to be changed just to I can go as fast as I want .
    DJS likes this.
  17. DJS

    DJS New Member

    Well it's apparent that your mind is set on an idea or ideas based on your personal observations. Unfortunately it seems that your lengthy resume and boundless experience is only exceeded by your inability to comprehend the complexity of a social stratification and the diversity of those who make up the different groups in a social hierarchy.

    When you refer to "the spandex" crowd as being responsible and the group that makes up "most of the people here" as being irresponsible, you fail to realize that it's never about a particular group that causes a rift in societal trends but the individuals within these groups who ultimately influence our ideas, our mannerisms, our habits and our laws.

    I'm not certain that "most of the people on here" are irresponsible. I'm only certain that there are those on here (and in any group) who would attempt to convince others that they are. That, in and of itself, is the only truly unhealthy aspect of any particular "group".

    Lastly I'm pretty sure your recollection of that popular saying is somewhat skewed. I'm pretty sure it goes more like this, "Give her an inch and she's likely to be disappointed".
  18. sbest

    sbest Active Member

    Sheesh DJS, that was uncalled for.
    Junkyard dog puts up a good argument, and you ignored it, diving into personal attack and elitist jargon to alienate him.

    Personally, his arguments are easy to agree with. Do we need every DUI dropout and 12yr old kid on a 80cc bicycle with insufficient brakes?

    I do think that traveling with traffic is safer than 10km under, but like he says, where do you stop? With the laws the way they are, no cop bothers me as long as I follow in the flow of traffic and respect the other drivers. You made some good points, as did others, about speed being our friend and being unique and skilled enough to get these bikes up to 40mph generally means we also have the riding experience and wits about us to manage traffic safely. The slightly inebriated DUI graduate and 14yr old kid do not. Allowing them an 80cc, 40mph bike is like allowing them unlimited zippos and gas, or revolvers and +P cartridges. Accidents are gonna happen.

    Being able to drive a motorized vehicle without a licence or registration or insurance is an extreme privilege that has a nod to the allowance of freedom of mobility to the common man, regardless of circumstance or financial ability. This privilege has to come with minimum risk to the majority of the population and to the disadvantaged themselves. I think 50cc and 20mph are fair and wise compromises to those without skill and judgement in a free but safe society.

    It is like the speed limit to those with sports cars. If you are caught for speeding, you obviously were not being careful enough.

  19. I really hate that DUI argument. It seems like every time there is a discussion about this the DUI always has to come up . I for one don't have a car and use my mb to get around and people automatically think that I have a DUI and I must be using this as a loophole .I enjoy my mb and I love how much it takes to maintain it and ride properly. I know there are some people who give us mbers a bad name but you can say that about any group of people ,there is always gonna be someone out there doing bad
  20. DJS

    DJS New Member

    Well Steve,

    I'm sorry if you didn't understand my elitist jargon. I thought it was fairly precise and certainly self-explanatory. But therein lies the difference twixt you and I and our differences are what makes this a great country to live in. With all due respect, I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but Sheesh, I'm pretty sure it was JYD who did the alienating here and I thought that was painfully obviously. So I didn't ignore anything. In fact, I did one better; I stood up for myself and my peers by NOT ignoring it.

    If somebody berates an entire group that I'm part of, I have to assume I'm included. I have a car, a license, no DUIs and I'm a productive member of society. Moreover, I haven't broken any laws or given the MB community a bad name by riding irresponsibly. JunkYardDog says that most of us give the group a bad name by being irresponsible. That means you and me buddy. Because if you throw out the drunks and the 12 year olds which only make up a FEW of us, we're all that's left to make up MOST of us. How is it that you don't see the perverse alienation in that statement?

    I'm also not sure what you mean by "insufficient breaks". Are the breaks insufficient because the bike belongs to a 14 year old? Or are the breaks insufficient because a slightly inebriated person doesn't know how to adjust them? Isn't the term "slightly inebriated DUI graduate" an oxymoron? If he's a graduate, shouldn't his right to be slightly inebriated be returned as long as he's not over the legal limit?

    With respect, I'll have to disagree. The argument in question, for me at least, was NOT easy to agree with. I can see your point of view and I respect your right to voice your opinion as I normally would for anyone. However, JYD vilified the entire MB group based on the shortcomings of a few. So wouldn't you agree that there's a better chance people will respect a person’s opinion before they stand-by a direct incrimination?

    So you're free to think what you want and accept what you feel to be JYD's validity, but I draw the line when I'm accused of something I haven't done. Regardless of the accuracy in JYD's overall statement, if the core thrust is to hold everyone in the group accountable for the actions of a few drunk 12 year olds, you can always be sure that I'm gonna speak up in defense of myself and my peers. ~ Respectably, DJS
    undercover bluebird likes this.