Q-Matic drive sytem

Discussion in 'Dealer Advertisements' started by Quenton Guenther, Sep 30, 2009.

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  1. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    We have completed testing on the EZM Q-Matic drive system at both locations of EZM. Our west coast office lost one of his EZM automatics to his wife [she really likes the new drive system] and he will be testing new rear drive options next. Actually he has installed another EZM automatic on one of his other bikes but will be testing alternative rear sprockets.

    I concluded my final tests at Lewes, DE last weekend, and many rode my original proto-type, in fact it seldom set idle all weekend. The new drive should start production in the next 30 days.

    Originally we weren't going to offer the drive as a separate unit, however it appears no one else is going to make a drive for the various motors already in the marketplace, so we will. Our drive system has been connected to several different 4-stroke motors with HP varing from 1.5 HP to 8 HP and the results are more than we hoped for.

    We suggest pre-ordering the drive systems from the closest Authorized dealer .
    We will also aid anyone trying to attach our system to alternative 4-stroke frame mounted motors.


    Have fun,
     

  2. lovehamr

    lovehamr New Member

    When are you going to post this stuff on your site? You know, pics, prices, ordering info, that sort of thing.

    Steve
     
  3. Youngbird

    Youngbird Member

    If you would read the associated posts within these threads you would see how this works. Locate the dealer near you and contact them. They will supply you with all the info you need. Simple!
     
  4. lovehamr

    lovehamr New Member

    Actually, I read all of them, I know how they want it to work and find fault with it. This is the only MB advertiser that I've found thus far who operates like this. I don't need a salesman, I don't want to be a dealer; I just need information, information that should be contained within any business web site. I posted a list of these bits of info in another thread.

    Also as I posted in another thread, there are no dealers near me, hence the need for information. To his credit, Jay from PA who apparently is a dealer has PMed me about the price already but that is just the tip of the information iceberg.

    I believe that if you look at other MB sites then look at EZ's site, and then think about buying something you'll find that it is the antithesis of simple when in fact it could and should be "simple." I mean really; look at http://www.thescooterguy.org/ there's twice as much info about what he does and he's only one guy. This isn't rocket surgery. If they need to hire a teenager to update their site then do it, it would pay off in sales.

    Steve
     
  5. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    call me if you want any info...
    I am the first person on their arizona dealer page :)
     
  6. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Steve,

    Just a few comments concerning our website. We weren't ready to market our system until we were sure it is bullet proof. We watched many bring their product to the market and witnessed many, many, many, failures. Sadly the failures cost the end user a lot of money and time to fix problems that should have been eliminated via testing and quality control.

    If the almightily dollar and marketing were our objectives, we could have sold hundreds if not thousands of systems last year.

    During our market research phase we noticed many were "unhappy" that we didn't pass all our information to everyone free of charge. We also noted many with broken kits & drive systems acted like it was our duty to offer a solution to the many problems that plagued our industry. I guess it is important to remember, we didn't make the problematic motorbikes & kits, therefore it isn't our duty to fix other's mistakes.

    Because of pressure from our Authorized dealers we have agreed to offer the Q-Matic drive system as a stand along product, however even that decision brought forth complaints [just can't make some people happy, no matter what]. It appears everyone wants an American made product, sprinkled with a lot of quality, but wants to either have us give it away, provide all the details [free], or sell it below the price of the "junk' currently being offered.



    Although our website is being upgraded we don't want to sell product from the site, but rather from Authorized dealers. Our main goal from the website is to provide access to our dealer network, add new dealers, and provide minimum information. The reason we opted to use the Authorized dealer program is to provide much better service to the end user. It is also important to note many, if not most, purchased their kit from Embay [box sellers] and bought it without any detailed information. Several purchased their kits from "one person" operations and often over loaded the system [some have had to wait months to get service]. Sorry but EZM isn't going to take the same failed path, but instead offer "real" service via our Authorized dealer network.


    I guess it is time to ask the following question.... Does Harley Davidson, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc provide detailed assembly and expensive production information [trade secrets] on their web site, or do they offer service via a dealer network?


    I guess many haven't noticed the current system isn't working, otherwise why would anyone be so concerned about EZM, our website, and detailed information about our drive system.

    Of course I know you aren't one of those mentioned above, so what do you want to know?

    Hopefully the Q-matic will be in full production within the next 30 days. The inductory MSRP will be $249.00 plus shipping. The drive system will not include the heavy-duty chain required, but can be purchased from any Authorized dealer. Most EZM parts are made in CA & NC [in America]. We use a special clutch made by MaxTorque [also an American company]. We currently make the drive covers in NC by Randy Williams [one of the owners of EZM]. I designed the complete system and custom made several for dealer testing. We have tested the system for over a year [unlike other companies] and have made a few improvements along the way [and it didn't cost the consumer a single dime].

    If you want more detailed information simply contact any authorized dealer or me!

    Have fun,
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  7. lovehamr

    lovehamr New Member

    And I whole heartedly agree with that reasoning. That's why I'm doing my due diligence before I buy anything, and why I went to your site in the first place.

    I will agree that the quick buck should not be the way to go but the goal of any company is to provide a profit regardless of whether it is short or long term.

    As far as my posts go; I don't know what to say, I have no idea where that came from. I don't own any MB stuff much less expect you to make it all better.

    OK, again I have no idea where that came from. I don't know what your "Q-Matic" system is much less want it as a stand (alone?) for any of my non-powered bicycles. But; if it were something that I thought I wanted, yes I would want the INFO for FREE before I decided to lay down my cash for it. To buy your sales brochure just to see if I wanted it would be stupid.

    So EZM's goal in marketing is to keep the buyer in the dark? By "end user" you mean the potential buyer that is over 7 hours away from the nearest dealer? It doesn't take a genius to figure out how great that service is going to be. All it does is ad another layer of time, money and hassle to the buyer.

    I haven't bought one at all so again I have no idea why you would even bring that up to me. By "real service" what exactly do you mean? Do you actually expect everyone who buys your product to be able to pop by the dealer when they need service?

    Quick reality check here; your target comparisons are skewed to say the very least. For an equal comparison why don't you try Trek, Gary Fischer (really also Trek) or Giant. For an even better comparison try Ellsworth, Foes, or Santa Cruz (small independents). What do they all have in common with you? Bicycles! So unless you're powering that puppy with a small Manhattan Project it sounds like someone needs to get a grip.


    Yup, I'm sure the Chechnian military would love to crack that code.

    I want decent pictures of what I'd be buying, info on how it works, how it attaches and the quality of the pieces involved. And of course what it would cost to get it and get it to me. And I gotta be honest, I don't think that any of those are out of line and the mear suggestion that it is industrial espionage is so over the top that it's bordering on narcissistic.

    Since it seems I need to be more clear on my desires, here is a little about me and my little family of 3. At this time we own 10 bicycles, it would be 12 if my oldest still live with us. To say that we are into it would be a massive understatement. I used to race cross country (sucked at it) and downhill, my oldest road for the Community Olympic Development Program team (CODP) out of San Antonio TX and now my youngest, who is the most motivated of all, even races in UCI (international) events. He wants to be a pro so bad he can taste it. But what the heck, it keeps him motivated in school as well because he knows that if he doesn't get the grades he doesn't ride the bike. So I do what I can to support him whenever I can. That is what brings me to motor bikes. As part of his training regimen he could use something called "motor pacing." This is where the rider being trained uses the draft if a motorcycle or motor bike to maintain a relatively high speed (30+) for an extended period of time thus simulating the riding in a peleton during a road race. Granted I could use my Buell for this but chugging around at 30mph is just no fun on that MC. So I brought up the idea of a MB and the whole family thinks it's a cool idea. My wife even hinted that she might like one. So I started researching and found a couple of forums and a lot of great info that I'd never even thought of which has allowed me to refine my requirements.
    #1 Reliability
    #2 Still "pedalable" with stock (quality, not Walmart) pedals (I use clipless) and cranks
    #3 In frame mounting in one of my quality bikes
    #4 No low quality Chinese 2 stroke doo doo
    #5 No scrub drive
    #6 Top speed over 35mph even with my fat butt on it and without goofy stuff like NO2
    #7 I don't expect any"thing" for free but I don't want to feel like I went to prison either.

    So how does that sound? Does it sound like stuff from your company or should I just move along?

    Steve
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  8. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Steve,


    Great information! A new use for a MB. As a past motorcycle racer I totally under stand "drafting", but never though of its possible use as "motor pacing". Sounds like a great plan to me.

    Let me cover a few items on your list that may be helpful.

    #1 Quality is most important to us, and there are several 4-stroke motors that are considered reliable, most issues are drive system related.
    #2 The Q-matic clutch "freewheels" in either direction, however when the rear wheel turns the chain and bell of the clutch rotate. When ridden as a bicycle the system is almost drag free.
    #3 We agree 100%, you need approx 14" from the pedal crank housing to the top bar. The actual motor is 9.5" tall.
    #6 We supply the EZM kit to fit requirements in most states concerning speeds on level ground [25 to 30 MPH].
    The EZM drive was devolped with simple ratio changes in mind. In order to alter the top speed, cruising speed, or climbing speeds, a simple exchange of easily available parts can alter the outcome greatly. Having said all this, I can tell you that the speeds you mention should be possible. My personal test bike with the HS motor had a slightly higher top end as did the Honda motor but both easily cruised at 35 MPH and often for long periods of time. Many have told me the 49 CC 4 strokes were designed primarily for water pumps and generators and are expected to run for extended periods of time. I do know they actually run cooler than most because of the directed airflow.

    #7 The EZM kit is priced similar to other companies using American parts & labor, but we are always looking for ways to reduce the cost while improving quality.


    One concept often overlooked concerning Authorized dealers as opposed to marketing over the internet, Ebay, etc, is the EZM dealer is a motor biker, has personal knowledge, wants to help, and will always provide information, often after our offices are closed.

    I hope I answered all your questions, if not just ask.

    Have fun,
     
  9. lovehamr

    lovehamr New Member

    Hi Lee and thanks for the continued dialog. As I was looking around at engines I found this Honda which seems to have a good bit of power, a fairly compact size and is surprisingly inexpensive for a Honda. I found it here:

    http://www.brandnewengines.com

    Then go to "GX160-EMA2"

    Drive side
    [​IMG]

    Start side
    [​IMG]

    I know that you've been busy but have you had the time to test you bikes with something like this?

    Steve
     
  10. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Steve,

    The largest motor we tested our drive system on was a B & S 8 HP motor and it worked really well.

    I don't know if the Honda 5.5 HP motor will fit in the average frame, however it looks similar to the HF Greyhound motor, but just don't know the actual size.

    The problem with many larger motors is the RPM range. Most peak out at approx 3600 RPMs and is difficult to attach a clutch to run the correct stall speeds. There are clutches that will operate within the needed range, however it requires the clutch to be attached on the end of the crankshaft, then a system is needed to reduce the ratios to power the rear wheel. When attaching the clutch to the motor the width becomes a major problem. One of the challenges we faced was the width of the motor and drive system assembly, and many of the latest offerings from China and Taiwan are ignoring this issue. I know of several companies that think making the motor & drive several inches wider is OK, and the "dumb" Americans will still continue to buy. And sadly they are right; as long as we send our money to them they will continue to insult our intelligence. It won't be long and we will all walk "bow legged" from riding our motorbikes.

    The EZM system has positioned the clutch and support system in a narrow package and is less than 2" wide [from the motor housing]. In fact the pictures make our drive look wider than it really is, therefore we are re-designing the cover to remove this illusion.

    Just for the record, getting the power from the motor to the wheel is an issue that many [most] kits just can't seem to get right. One of my favorites is using gears, then to stop the noise [sounds like a police car with the siren on] pack it with heavy grease. I wonder if anyone has taken the time [or maybe they just don't care] to consider how much power is wasted turning gears in heavy grease? I think it is somewhat like "rowing" a boat in mud, and wondering why it is difficult to do. Another of my favorite engineering feats concerns mounting shafts on only one side, and then wondering why the bushings fail and the shaft "wobbles". One recent motor I tested employs a primary chain without a tensioner or lube, and it appears someone forgot that poor quality chains stretch, in fact even high quality chains stretch some.

    One of the major advantages to the EZM drive sytem centers around adaptability. Because the mounting surface of our system is flat it can be attached to a large variety of motor options, often with the simple re-location of the mounting holes. Most drive systems from China are made to fit only certain motors, and there is no guarantee the next edition will fit the current motors.

    Part of our decision to make the Q-Matic system available as a stand alone produce was the recent release of a primary belt drive sytem from one of the major companies. We had hoped the new system would help the many with failed gear boxes, but soon found out the new system wouldn't fit earlier motors. In order to help get the 4 stroke kits back into operation we flexed our policy and will offer the Q-Matic drive as a solution.


    Hope this information is helpful.

    Have fun,
     
  11. RusticoRay

    RusticoRay Member

    Steve,
    That motor looks to be to large for frame mount unless you plan on cutting and welding a frame. On page 18 of pdf it says its L is12.0in. ,width is14.3in. ,height is 13.2in. Also it will have plenty of grunt but will only turn 3600rpm. For 299.00 you would be better off with the GHX50 thats turns to 7000rpm and will be a smaller footprint . It wont have the grunt but will cruise at 35mph all day.
    I did put the Harbor Freight 2.5hp 99.00 motor in a frame mount and found out that it fit but it maxed out at 30mph with the govenor ripped out and a opened exhaust. About 4500rpm. It did haul a bunch and had plenty of torque. I ended up with the Hauge Sheng the Honda GHX50 clone and it cruises at 30 -32 and still has a little left. Not as much torque but it isn't wound out at 30mph like the HF.
     
  12. abikerider

    abikerider Member

    Hi Quenton,
    Just wondering if the q-matic is ready to be sold yet. You mentioned in one of your posts that it would be ready around the end of October. Do you have an update for us? Some of us are anxious to try it.
     
  13. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Quenton, one point that I'd like to make, is that most auto/bicycle manufacturers DO provide list prices for the equipment they manufacture. Just that information, freely available, would let folks know roughly how much they're going to need to save, before they start getting serious about buying one of your drives...
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2009
  14. Q-Matic EZM

    Hi abikerider, you are here in Sacramento, and if you would like, I have a running prototype that you can test-ride. It is mounted on a 1962 Schwinn Tornado with HS engine, stock pipe.

    You should still have my phone number, if not I am available at 519-8612.

    Mike
     
  15. Is it gear driven, chain, or belt? What is the standard reduction it provides? That wouldn't be letting out too much info would it? Wouldn't want you to have to kill me if you told me too much by accident.
     
  16. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    Lou,
    it has been stated that the MSRP is 650$ + shipping for the full 'silent-drive' manual kit
    Quenton gives a tentative price of 249$ + shipping for the Q-matic auto 'gear-box' here
    http://www.motoredbikes.com/vb/showpost.php?p=238812&postcount=6

     
  17. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi KeepOnKeepnON,

    I will gladly answer your questions.

    The ratios can easily be altered, and we don't use noisy gears.
    The front drive is belt, the rear drive is chain, but several converted the rear drive to belt.
    The Silent Power [manual] can be set up to run ratios from 20 X 1 to 12.58 X 1. The EZM drive system is the only drive that can span such a wide range of choices[without expensive shift kits].

    Gear drives, can't easily alter the primary ratio, cogged belt drives are next to impossible to change the primary ratios in a costly fashion, and design will limit the possibilities. Primary chain drive has encountered too many problems to even consider, including noise, chain stretch, sprocket failure, etc, just to mention a few.

    The new Q-Matic reduced the primary options slightly because the stall speed on the MaxTorque clutch must be considered. So the options in the current production design begin with 18.2 x 1 and end with 12.58 X 1.

    I can change the ratios on my proto-type Q-Matic in about 15 minuites or less. My Silent drive test drive can be changed from 14.67 X 1 to 16.43 X 1 in about 45 seconds [if the primary drive cover is off].

    One of the final production hold ups on the Q-Matic was centered around the need to make ratio changes easier.

    Hope this answered all your questions, and we won't have to kill anyone for knowing too much.

    Have fun,
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2009
  18. Thanks, that is more info than the whole website has. I am much more interested now. I take it that means it is a V belt. A quiet belt drive system is exactly what I am looking for. If you could post that info and some pictures of the tranny on the website it would help tremendously. You guys are seriously shooting yourself in the foot, you need to hook people the moment they get on your site, not make them work for it. The way its set up now, only experienced motor bikers who actually know what they want (and know they do not want the standard equipment) are going to go through the extra work.
    Info on converting the secondary drive to a belt drive would be great too. Quiet is one of my primary goals. I think there's money to be made in making that a seperate kit as well, I'd buy it.
    Let us know when we can order.
     
  19. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Production has started on the Q-Matic

    Hi Everyone,

    Accepted final bids on Q-Matic yesterday!

    Scheduled delivery 3 weeks.

    Aluminum isn't cheap in the USA!

    Thousands and thousands of test miles logged by dealers nationwide.

    American labor isn't cheap!

    Test riders on the West coast
    Test riders on the East coast
    Test riders in the South [still warm in many areas]
    Test riders in the North [a little colder up there]
    Test riders along the Atlantic coast [was only 85 today].
    The results are in!
    We did it right!


    Shipping isn't cheap!

    As hard as we tried, we couldn't meet the projected MSRP, but only missed by $9.75.
    The MSRP is $259.75. No matter how hard we tried to bargain, the American labor force simply wanted paid for their services and quality materials.

    The Q-Matic drive was tested on a variety of 4-stroke motors from 35 CCs to 8 HP. It has been tested up hills, against the wind, and with riders from 100 pounds [thanks Ladies] to over 300 pounds. It has and is currently still being tested pulling a trailer in a hilly terrain [Thanks, Bill]. Thanks again Bill for projecting the motorbike as a family friendly form of transportation.

    We listened when many requested ease of service, KISS [keep it simple stupid], quality parts, good warranty, silent operation, easily changeable drive ratios, a real working dependable "custom" American made automatic clutch, thin design, adaptability, and maintain backwards compatibility.

    The entire system was designed and then machined on CNC equipment in American shops.

    Because of design the majority of the power is transmitted from the motor to the rear wheel, and therefore the Q-Matic drive ratios allow better use of the power band.

    The production drive ratios will allow the speed of 30 MPH at 6200 RPMs on a 26" bicycle with an average weight rider on a level surface. Considering the ability of the HS or Honda 49 CC 4-strokes to achieve RPMs well above 7500 RPMs, 6200 RPMs is just right for a smooth ride.

    Ratios can easily be changed for heavier riders or to compensate for hills.

    The Q-Matic and the future Silent Drive II can be attached to most motors with the output to the rear [for frame mount], and 90 degrees downward for rack mount applications [We don't supply rack mounting systems].

    Did I mention the Aluminum? Lots & lots of Aluminum in the Q-Matic drive by EZM.



    $259.75 MSRP
    EZM dealers can answer your questions, call them!

    All orders prior to Dec 15th $249.75

    Best order quickly because demand should outpace production for a while.

    Have fun,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  20. Great news. I want one. The thing that excites me most is quieting down my bike. I want to start sourcing the parts to make the final drive a belt rather than chain. You guys have been using the whizzer shieve for this right? What size/where do I get/what mods need to be done for the front pulley? Do you guys carry the parts or recommend a particular source for pulleys/belts?
    Now that the design is finalized, lets see a picture of all that sweet aluminum work!
     
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