Q-Matic II 2 speed

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by Quenton Guenther, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Just finished testing the two-speed drive on the HF 99 CC motor. Removed the drive and installed on a stock Q-Matic drive on a HS 142 49 CC 4-stroke motor for future testing. We designed it to become an upgrade to the stock Q-Matic drive, therefore I only had to change a few parts, including an additional clutch and inner bearing support bracket. I was surprised how easy it was to install on the existing Q-Matic drive.

    Sadly we still haven't been able to find a fabrication shop willing to make it for a reasonable price, but we are still shopping. One of the issues we encountered are prices for a low production run. I thought using the stock Q-Matic drive plate, bearings, belt, Max Torque clutch, and rear bearing support would help the mfg cost. However the current issue is making the front bearing support [approx. 2" wider], special modified secondary Max Torque clutch and we haven't even addressed the wider cover needed.

    We will continue with the project and may even make a small run of "limited" edition prototype drives for testing while we continue searching for the right shop to make the upgrade system.

    The Q-Matic II simply adds a much lower ratio [or higher depending on point of view] to the stock ratio to allow quicker take-off speeds and will handle tough hills much better. It has been a lot of fun tuning the drive to shift where you want it, and working with low RPM motors [HF 79 & 99 CC].

    Here is how we configured the drive to work with the low RPM motors:
    Installed 2 larger primary pulleys, and 2 types of drive belts. By using a stock primary pulley [used on the stock Q-Matic] on the inside, and a slightly larger on the outside, and altering the belt type, we start out with approx. ratio of 15.5 X 1, and then shift to 11.5 X 1. Of course one of the Max Torque clutches is the stock Q-Matic version, and the other has a reversed operation, different shoes, and spring rates. As soon as we spin the shaft at a high enough RPM the primary clutch enguages, then at a higher RPM speed the secondary clutch over rides the shaft speed and spins the primary clutch at the new ratio.

    Have fun,

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012

  2. jbcruisin

    jbcruisin Member

    My bikes are anxiously (impatiently) awaiting this clutch. :)
  3. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    as is my trailer hauling steed !!! ;)
  4. abikerider

    abikerider Member

    That's pretty neat but boy it looks kinda wide. How much wider do you think the production version of this will be than a standard Q-matic? I'm hoping not much.
  5. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    I believe it is 1.5" wider than stock drive
  6. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Abikerider,

    Bill is correct it is approx. 1.5" wider than the stock Q-Matic drive. It is important to note that the stock Q-Matic is one of the thinnest drives available, and can be even downsized a little more. We ship the Q-Matic with a cover that is 2" deep, however it can be cut down another 3/8" and still clear all the internal parts of the drive. We use a 2" cover to allow more space inside to keep the parts cooler.

    On the stock Q-Matic, there is a space between the secondary drive pulley and the clutch, that is occupied by the second primary drive pulley on the Q-Matic II.

    Good news is the wide part of the drive is normally behind the left leg in a normal riding stance.

    Have fun,
  7. curtisfox

    curtisfox Member

    WOW very intresting. Sounds like what everyone has been waiting for.......Curt
  8. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    Hi Quenton
    You should get your 2 speed out to the SoCal races.
    Win races on Saturday and sell on Monday? :D

    Affordable Go Karts raced a 79 cc HF with their 2 speed at the last
    Oct 22nd SoCal Motor Bicycle Race.

    The 79 cc HF 2 speed was keeping up with the 5 HP Briggs bikes but
    the rider went off the track and stalled so he didn't end up beating
    them. Actually that happened a couple of times and he was still able
    to catch up!

    Shane's (AGK) son will probably be racing it again on a 99 cc HF Predator
    at the next April 7th race and it should be for sale soon.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2012
  9. silverbear

    silverbear New Member

    I'm very much hoping this can become a reality for the rest of us. This summer I plan to switch out the H.S. engine for the 99 Predator simply because as it is my Panther can't pull the hills adequately. If I thought the 2 speed was going to happen I wouldn't bother changing engines. The H.S is sweet running and easy to start. If you need a tester for the 2 speed, I happily volunteer.
  10. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi everyone,

    No doubt the Q-Matic II is a winner, however the cost is still an issue. We just received information from several companies that wish to bid on the project, hopefully we can "get-er-done" for a lot less.

    Currently we are considering making a few proto-types for additional testing, but the cost is still very high. The main reason is the use of two Max Torque clutches, one as the primary and the second as the overdrive. Making a short run of wider bearing support brackets is another costly reason, and we may consider "welding" extensions on current brackets to save a few $$$.

    Have fun,
  11. Meano

    Meano New Member

    I heard there some new updates to the 2 speed drive

    I heard there some new updates to the 2 speed drive.
  12. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    hey Larry, welcome to the original forum. :D

    Where did you hear that?
  13. Meano

    Meano New Member

    Sometimes its not what you know its who you know.
  14. Meano

    Meano New Member

    I heard that Quenton got the 2 speed to fit into the original housing.
    I would like to show Quenton a ideal I have for a 2 speed see what he thanks.
  15. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    MVC-029S.JPG MVC-023S.JPG MVC-016S.JPG MVC-026S.JPG Here are pictures of the final 2 speed drive. Have found a way to reduce cost and slim down the drive even more. I just haven't reduced the internal bearing carrier bracket yet as I just made a spacer for testing. Just put over 200 miles on drive, and I must admit, it works better than I ever thought it would. I set up the prototype on a 99 CC HF motor as it was handy, and had a long crankshaft. The long crankshaft helped speed up the process as I wouldn't have to make a double pulley, just use 2 single pulleys on the longer shaft. The production version will have a 2 step one piece pulley for the slightly shorter 5/8" crankshaft on the Honda and HS motors.

    Because the motor is a low RPM motor and idles at approx 1100, it was necessary to use larger primary pulleys in order to take advantage of the increased torque and HP.

    I used a 3" pulley connected to a 4.95" pulley for the overdrive ratio of 9.43 X 1, and a 2.5" pulley connected to a 5.45" pulley for the stock Q-matic drive ratio of 12.629 X 1. The 2 speed is simply a Q-Matic with an overdrive. The Q-Matic clutch started "ticking" at 2500 RPMs, and engaged at 2900 RPMs [17 MPH]. The overdrive clutch started ticking at 3800 RPMs [24 MPH], and completely engaged at 4200 RPMs [25 MPH on drive clutch and 35 MPH on OD clutch]. The surprising part of the system is it doesn't "shift" into over drive, it is so smooth you can't tell it shifted. The speed picks up quickly, and the tachometer is steady. When the throttle is held at 4500 RPMs, the bike picks up speed quickly without the RPMS moving up. I expected the RPMs to drop as the over drive clutch engaged, however the RPMs remained steady and the speed increased quickly. It feels like I hit the torque peak just as the over drive started to engage.

    The only difference in the 2 speed for the 50 CC 4 stroke motors is the primary pulleys would be smaller to take advantage of the high RPMs motors.

    Final test results netted a top speed of 50 MPH @ 6100 RPMs Had to re-jet carburetor and alter exhaust system to get the motor past 5200 RPMs.

    Have fun,

    Attached Files:

  16. Meano

    Meano New Member

    Thanks for your update Quenton I like it. Helmutt told me that you had made some updates.
    Here is a one I was think of making.
    2 speed drive2.jpg
  17. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    There are all kinds of way to make a 2 speed drive system, including tighten one belt and loosen the other at the same time. Problem arrives with many state laws, as NO MANUAL shifting is allowed, and must be totally automatic. There was a neat system at the Portland show this year and sadly it was shifted manually.

    I do like the way you included the belt drive in the pedal system.
    Another important issue is the lack of bearing support at the ends of the jack-shaft, causing excessive wear on the shaft in the center.

    Stay tuned, more to come as I find time to alter the ratios and shifting points for different types of small 4 stroke motors.

    Have fun,
  18. LR Jerry

    LR Jerry Well-Known Member

    How good is it at getting large men up 30% grade hills with 49 cc engines? The legal thing and steep hills is why I built my 5 speed automatic LandRider bicycle.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  19. Meano

    Meano New Member

    Quenton can you make me a 2 speed drive?
    I do not want the chain clutch I want 3" pulley instead, belt drive to rear wheel and shaft longer so I can put freewheel on end
  20. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Have finished almost all the testing, and I am amazed how well this drive actually works. I had planned on playing with some additional ratios, however it works so well we just can't stop riding the bike.

    As many know I recently re-designed it again. This latest re-design will help in reducing the cost, and made it almost another inch thinner. I am currently making another test unit so that we can speed up testing on the newest design.

    We are also working with one of our current vendors to possibly make this drive affordable. The biggest price obstacle is the cost of 2 complete clutches [one primary and one for over-drive]in the system. Current estimates exceed $250.00 in parts costs, not counting shipping & assembly labor. We are doing our best to reduce cost and maintain the quality we are noted for in the process. The main clutch can be changed to V-belt output in 2.5", 3.2" and 3.5" sizes. NO FREEWHEEL is needed with this system, like the Q-Matic, the freewheel is built in the basic operation of the drive.

    I have considered making a few additional units for a few that might want to test the proto-types, however, we are so busy with EZM production, little time is left for new products. We just completed all the testing and production cost for a new clutch for Whizzer motorbikes, and are working to hopefully start production before the end of this year. We also have a new high performance head for the Whizzer's getting ready to start production.

    Contact me via PM for more details.

    Have fun,