quality on products

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by batteway, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. batteway

    batteway New Member

    I know you cant ask to much from Chinese components but I have order three new CDIs here recently and every one of them is non functional out of the box. And all three were from different sellers as well. Has anybody else had an issue with there new CDIs and if not please direct me to a seller that checks there product before the sell to me. Tired of wasting money on broken gear and then getting no help from the sellers "BikeBerry" for one. I have gone over everything and replaced everything down to a new flywhell mag. Thought I was losing my mind till I tested the new CDIs to find bad readings on all from 3 different multimeters. tired of not being able to ride.
     

  2. Bzura

    Bzura Member

    I don't know what to tell ya. That's some REALLY bad luck getting 3 brand new CDI's that are DOA. I've dealt with 40+ CDI's from many different suppliers in the past 6 months or so, and I've never had a problem. Yet.

    I hear that Jaguar's CDI's are excellent. He's a member if this forum. You can contact him ...or I'm sure he'll be along to see this if you wait.
     
  3. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    yeah my CDI is good but I really doubt you got 3 bad stock CDIs.
    Did you finally get it to run? If not, then I suggest you dig deeper.
     
  4. batteway

    batteway New Member

    I have dug deeper. I've metered every possible conection to the electrical system trying to find fault somewhere else. I now have new plug, plug wire, magneto, flywheel magnet, upgraded all wire to 12 ga., new kill switch. And all that is aside the fact that when I install my buddies CDI on my bike I took off like a stabbed rat. I appreciate all the effort it takes to produce a new peice of tech for these bikes but I cant bring myself to pay $90 for a CDI that one pop-up florida thunderstorm can destroy. All it takes is the 5 min to walk into a bait shop for a storm to come out of nowhere down here. I would just like to find a supplier who stands out for customer service and reliability. So far the only one to not have failed me is SBP. They however dont carry all the parts one might need. But as long as they have it ill order from them.
     
  5. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    Okay. Your friend's CDI worked on your bike when yours wouldn't.

    Does it work now on his bike?

    The answer to that question should give a good clue about what's going on.
     
  6. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    I am curious to know why you thing the Jaguar CDI is more vulnerable to lightning strikes than the standard CDI.
    SBP may be selling the jaguar CDI soon.
     
  7. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

    We once got in a box of CDI units and pulled two in a row out of it that were bad (timing was off). Every other one in the box was good though.

    We also got in some magneto stators that had coil readings around 450ohm rather than around 350ohm. We sent those all back since we were afraid they might cause CDI failure.

    Did you check the reading of your mag coil?

    I built a CDI tester that checks both quality of spark and correctness of timing since trying to tell anything about them by multimeter is not very accurate.
     
  8. batteway

    batteway New Member

    Its not the lightning that I worry about, but the rain. Thats what caused the original problem. I dont care how much you cover things with sealant water still gets in. I dont ride in the rain but you do get caught in it from time to time. And I have tested my magnetos. all of them are testing at 330-350. When I check the new CDI with the red lead to black wire and black lead to blue, im only gettin 110 when I should be around 130 from what I understand. And from the CDI to the plug wire I get nothing from either way tested. Please remember I have replaced everything. Even thought it was my ground maybe not setting well and not closing the loop untill I found the old threads the gave me the #s I should be looking for.
     
  9. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    I have never had an original CDI fail, even though they have a crappy ignition curve that pounds out connecting rod bearings.

    Out of 6 Jaguar CDI's that i've purchased, i have had one that has been a failure.
     
  10. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    Have gone through hundreds of CDI's and maybe had one bad one since 2008

    I don't test CDI's, just replace them with a known good one.
     
  11. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

  12. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    could be a "marginal" spark plug and that your friends CDI had an above average voltage output. That would explain everything. I would try a different plug. Make sure you gap it.
     
  13. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I think these bad CDI's come in waves in some cases, then other times they are just infant mortality from cheap components. I remember in 2009 or so, there apparently was a quantity of dead CDI's and people were coming to us in droves for replacements. We of course had nothing for them at the time.

    Key word being "may". We will test these, and if they work and don't cause harm to engines we will sell both. I am weary of using certain aftermarket CDI's in hot hi perf engines. Our desire is not to say one aftermarket CDI is better than the other. We are not a testing house. We desire to offer our customers a choice of aftermarket products whenever possible.
     
  14. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    A good part of the problem with CDI's that do work, then fail prematurely, is people either changing a spark plug and forgetting to place the spark plug lead back on, or not correctly pushing the spark plug boot into position.

    When you are pedaling like crazy; trying to start the engine, where does all of that energy go if it's not getting to the spark plug, and what is the effect on the ignition system?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  15. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    answer: it jumps back down its own coils seeking circuit "common". Doing so can fry the coils or fry the CDI if the spark jumps back across the primary coil. Same thing came happen with a bad plug too (not just dirty but truly bad so that it won't let the spark jump its gap). So any time the bike won't start you should first pull the plug, hold it to the head fins, and see if you get a spark by pushing the bike or spinning the rear wheel. Weak sparks are really hard to see in broad daylight. Also sparks that you can see will lose strength once the engine is reassembled because high cylinder pressure makes it harder for the spark to jump the gap. Don't ask me why.
     
  16. keatonx

    keatonx Member

    Maybe more air pressure/density= more non conductive matter the spark has to go through?
     
  17. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    In the case of a spark plug lead not being attached to the spark plug, and when the bike is furiously being pedaled down the street in Lance Armstrong fashion, in an attempt to get the engine started, does the following scenario portray an accurate representation of the current back flow: magnet rotates past the primary magneto coil and induces a rise in potential to around 80 volts. The stored energy is fed to the CDI which pumps it up to a much higher voltage, enabling the energy to jump an air gap at the spark plug electrode.

    CDI is pushed to it's limit to produce maximum voltage because it can't jump an infinitely large air gap from a spark plug lead that's not attached to the park plug, thereby leaving the maximum possible voltage rise to back feed to a common ground.
    Current now back feeds through the CDI (with maximum potential to jump air gaps to any nearby electrical component) in an attempt to find an earth. If it permanently damages any of the components in the CDI, then the magneto coil is safe, but the CDI is fried.
    If the CDI components hold up, or suffer partial damage, current will continue to back feed to the magneto coil. Once it arrives at the magneto coil, it massively raises the potential of the coil and all the current is dumped (through the thin gauge wire) to ground at the solder point on the magneto arms, thereby creating an open circuit condition when the wire melts from excess current flow.


    The customer now has an ignition system that fails to operate the spark plug and bitterly complains about Chinese parts and their poor quality. The customer then complains even more loudly that Chinese parts are rubbish when replacing the CDI (which may have survived the torture) and spits the dummy in howls of protest that he has received another bad CDI, even though it's the magneto that's been fried.
    In desperation the customer purchases another CDI only to find a "no-spark" condition - customer has a total meltdown and joins a motor bicycle forum to loudly complain about Chinese bicycle engines.


    Jaguar, is this an accurate portrayal of what happens when a spark plug lead is not attached to the spark plug or a spark plug that is suffering serious misfire?
    I have limited understanding of electrical circuitry and electrical theory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
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