Registration in California is not possible and not required

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by sergio riveros, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. My experience in California it is that the registration it is not possible and it is not required.

    I was told I needed to register my motorized bike, and I got a 30 day permit since it needed a VIN.

    However bikes do not have VINs, some bikes have serial numbers.
    The California Highway Patrol will not assign a VIN to a motorized bike even though according the the DMV they are responsible for the assignment of a VIN.

    The DMV will not assigned a VIN to a motorized bike.

    So for all practical purposes, it gets treated like a bicycle according to an email from the DMV.

    I will post here if I can get a refund for my failed registration of $56 which is wrong, since they charge me a motorcycle fee.

    Here is the official response:

    "Hi,



    I was following up with you regarding the inquiry on registering the bicycle. We apologize but we are unable to register your bicycle at this point per our manual and procedures. For any additional information you may call (800) 777 - 0133 or log on to our website at dmv.ca.gov. Thank you.



    Marisela Olivas

    San Ysidro DMV - 677
    "
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015

  2. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    Sergio,

    I put Thatsdax' post on Federal rules in a sticky topic, I think that info, in addition to your findings make a very muddy situation "clear as a bell", for future trouble free riding.....
     
  3. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

  4. turkeyssr

    turkeyssr Guest

    Confused

    Ok - now I'm confused. You can get a plate for a motorized bicycle but yet another item discussed on this list from the CA DMV states "A motorized bicycle operated upon a highway is exempt from registration." So is the plate registration or not? The URL is here: www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc4020.htm

    Thanks - John
     
  5. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    That is very old news. Look at the date on it...1/01/75

    You gotta be 16 with a M-2 cert on your CDL.
    Fill in the form that you print out and send it in with the $17.
    It's a one time plate, no annual fees.
    All bicycle laws apply as to night lighting and such.

    Just do it or go down to the DMV and play games with people that do not know the current law.

    Or, if you are under age just ride a motored bike in CA and see what happens when you get pulled over.
    Do report back if you choose to ride w/o the silly plate and do get pulled over.

    The links I posted are current and easily understood. :???:
     
  6. jerryt

    jerryt Guest

    John you're not the only one who is confused so I've copied items out of the CVC trying to help all of us to understand. Hope I got it all!!!

    1. THIS IS WHAT WE"RE TALKING ABOUT

    California Vehicle Code Division 3 - Registration of Vehicles and Certificates of Title

    2. THIS SAYS A MOTORIZED BIKE IS EXEMPT FROM REGISTRATION

    Chapter 1. Original and Renewal Registration; Issuance of Certificates of Title
    Article 1. Vehicles Subject to Registration

    Motorized Bicycles 4020.
    A motorized bicycle operated upon a highway is exempt from registration. Added Ch. 987, Stats. 1975. Effective January 1, 1976.

    3. THIS SAYS THAT ALTHOUGH YOU'RE EXEMPT FROM REGISTRATION, YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE A LICENSE PLATE

    Chapter 1. Original and Renewal Registration; Issuance of Certificates of Title
    Article 8.1. Motorized Bicycles

    License Plate Required 5037.
    (a) No motorized bicycle first sold on or after July 1, 1981, shall be moved or operated upon a highway unless the owner first makes application for a license plate and, when received, attaches it to the motorized bicycle as provided in this article.
    (b) Motorized bicycles first sold prior to July 1, 1981, shall not be moved or operated upon a highway after January 1, 1982, unless the owner makes application for a license plate and, when received, attaches it to the motorized bicycle as provided in this article.
    (c) Any motorized bicycle currently licensed pursuant to Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000) on July 1, 1981, may be operated upon a highway until July 1, 1982.
    Added Ch. 1070, Stats. 1980. Effective January 1, 1981


    4. THIS SAYS THAT ALTHOUGH YOU'RE EXEMPT FROM REGISTRATION, THE STATE STILL WANTS YOUR MONEY

    Chapter 1. Original and Renewal Registration; Issuance of Certificates of Title
    Article 8.1. Motorized Bicycles

    Service Fee 5036.
    A service fee of fifteen dollars ($15) shall be paid for the issuance or transfer of a special license plate for motorized bicycles, as defined in Section 406. Publicly-owned motorized bicycles are exempt from the fee.
    Amended Sec. 7, Ch. 719, Stats. 2003. Effective January 1, 2004.

    EDIT: THIS IS A ONE TIME FEE

    5. THIS SAYS THEY WANT MORE MONEY SIMPLY BECAUSE ANOTHER YEAR HAS GONE BY AND IF THEY WRITE IT UP LIKE THIS THEY WON"T FORGET NEXT YEAR

    Publisher's Note - Fees described in this section are subject to change pursuant to Section 1678 Fee Adjustment: Consumer Price Index
    (a) Between January 1, 2004, and December 31, 2004, inclusive, the fee amounts set forth in Section 488.385 of the Code of Civil Procedure, Section 10902 of the Revenue and Taxation Code, and Sections 4604, 5014, 5036, 6700.25, 9102.5, 9250.8, 9250.13, 9252, 9254, 9258, 9261, 9265, 9702, 11515, 11515.2, 12814.5, 14900, 14900.1, 14901, 14902, 38121, 38225.4, 38225.5, 38232, 38255, 38260, and 38265 shall be the base fee amounts charged by the department.
    (b) On January 1, 2005, and every January 1 thereafter, the department shall adjust the fees imposed under the sections listed in subdivision (a) by increasing each fee in an amount equal the increase in the California Consumer Price Index for the prior year, as calculated by the Department of Finance, with amounts equal to or greater than fifty cents ($0.50) rounded to the next highest whole dollar.
    Added Sec. 3, Ch. 719, Stats. 2003. Effective January 1, 2004.

    EDIT: 2007 amount = $17


    6. THIS IS THE LITTLE PLATE THEY GIVE YOU SO THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND GET MORE MONEY IF YOU DON"T HAVE ONE

    Moped

    The little plate pic won't print

    This permanent plate is mandatory on motorized bicycles. For an application click here.
    Statutory Authority: VC Sec.406, 5030


    7. AND THIS TELLS YOU THAT YOU BETTER HAVE PEDALS, CANNOT HAVE MORE THAN 2 HORSES (that's Gross my boy) OR 1000 WATTS AND BE INCAPABLE OF MORE THAN 30 MPH (with no regard given to weight) (20 MPH if electric) AND NO STATE REQUIRED INSURANCE

    California Vehicle Code Division 1- Words and Phrases Defined

    Motorized Bicycle
    406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
    (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
    (1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
    (2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.
    (3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
    (4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this subdivision, shall provide a disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing insurance policies may not provide coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their insurance company or insurance agent to determine if coverage is provided.
    (c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) shall meet both of the following requirements:
    (1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point boldface type on a single sheet of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
    (2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital letters:
    "YOUR INSURANCE POLICIES MAY NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE USE OF THIS BICYCLE. TO DETERMINE IF COVERAGE IS PROVIDED YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY OR AGENT."
    Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 804, Stats. 1995. Effective January 1, 1996. Supersedes Sec. 2, Ch. 342.

    EDIT: To add drivers license requirements

    How to apply for a motorcycle or moped driver license if you are over 18

    There are two classes of motorcycle licenses, Class M1 and Class M2.
    - With a Class M1, you can operate any 2-wheel motorcycle and any motorized vehicle in Class M2. (Also good for motorized scooter - stand on or seated)
    - With a Class M2, you can only operate any motorized bicycle or moped or any bicycle with an attached motor. (Also good for motorized scooter - stand on or seated)

    To apply for a motorcycle PERMIT for Class M1 or M2, you will need to:
    - Complete application form DL 44 (An original DL 44 form must be submitted)
    - Give a thumb print
    - Have your picture taken
    - Pay the application fee
    - Pass a vision exam
    - Pass a traffic laws and signs test. You have three chances to pass the test.
    .
    After completing the requirements, you will be issued an instruction permit to allow you to practice driving a motorcycle. You may not drive at night, on the freeway, or have any passengers with you.

    To apply for your motorcycle LICENSE for Class M1 or M2, you must do the following:
    - If you are under 21, you must complete a motorcycle rider training course given by the California Highway Patrol (CHP) and provide a certificate of Completion of Motorcycle Training (DL 389) to DMV to be issued your license. You will not be required to take the motorcycle driving test at DMV if you currently have a California Drivers License.
    - If you are over 21, you may either choose to complete the course by CHP and provide the certificate OR take the driving test. You have three chances to pass the test.


    If you've read this far I hope it clears it up

    Edited to add drivers license requirements
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2015
  7. turkeyssr

    turkeyssr Guest

    This clears things up nicely. Sorry for being the only one confused. As with all things DMV related, it's as clear as mud or subject to change without notice. :???:
     
  8. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    interesting thread...i think it's clear we may already know more about this (altho not much) than
    the beaurocrats we rely on... :???:
     
  9. jmacpi33

    jmacpi33 Guest

    California DMV Info

    Here is the CA DMV site re: motorized bicycles:

    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd3c1a8_1.htm

    Looks like we all need a plate on our bikes. But for $15, I think its worth it to avoid the headaches of the cops, courts and DMV. (especially here in Orange County!!)
     
  10. JosephGarcia

    JosephGarcia Guest

    Re: California DMV Info

    has anyone bought one of these? how exactly would one go about getting one? i noticed it said "a drivers license or ID card number is required" so you don't need an actualy drivers license to buy the plates? please help I wouldn't mind buying this if it keeps cops off my back.
     
  11. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    To be legit when operating a pedal assisted bicycle, one needs: A CDL with an M-2 cert, wear a DOT approved helmet and the bicycle must have operable pedal power.

    I am going to hopefully buy a used pedal bike with a plate on it today, 06/09/07. I will mail in for a plate in less than two weeks because the motor kit is not here yet for the present build. I have a M-1 cert on my CDL already. I will be buying a GIRO full face helmet because the only helmets here are funky bicycle pimple head kind or full face Arai motorcycle type. The helmet will be fudged on. might buy a DOT sticker at the M/C swap-meet.
    You can put turn signals on your bike if you wish but it won't matter if no pedal power is present.
    Good luck. :smile:
     
  12. jerryt

    jerryt Guest

    The law is confusing but here is my interpretation
    DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or a criminal (but I'm repeating myself)

    You can get the plate without an M2 license. Go Here

    EDIT: Delete

    Download/copy the first form and fill out section A and D. Send it in with a check or money order.

    Note that the cost is $17 (for inflation) NOT $15 as mentioned in a different post. See the DMV explanation in my previous post

    To be perfectly legal, you need an M2 motorized bicycle license. The instructions are here

    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/dl665mcycle.pdf

    Page 6 defines a motorized bicycle and page 7 defines the license requirement


    Good Luck
     
  13. In the confusion

    Hello, I have done all these things. I mailed and recieved and mounted 2 moped plates, one for Wifey's Whizzer and one for mine. If you-all like I will post pics. The State of Kalifornika form is named REG230 and is a downloadable pdf form. I reccomend to all my Whizzer (street legal DOT, EPA, and CARB legal bikes), and owner/buyers of any other of the bicycle engines that I've been selling for about 7 years now, to do this form. I give them the form.
    1) Put bicycle serial number in the vin slot (Whiz has VIN)
    2) Put engine serial number in the engine slot (if not numbered like the Whizzer is, then stamp one, illegal technically, but who is to know?)
    3) put bicycle and engine name in the Make slot ie Roadmaster/Skyhawk
    4) answer all four questions correctly
    5) sign and date
    6) in envelope with check to DMV for 17.00
    7) put the cotton-pickin thing in the mail, do NOT confuse the local DMV by going there with your bike, or even asking them any questions!!!

    Getting your license.
    This time show up at DMV, and ask to take motorcycle exam I think mine was 25.00 (you DID study, didn't you???) The motorcycle handbook is online and easily found.
    IF a certain number of months have passed since your last C (auto) exam has passed you will also have to take the front page of the C.
    Miss less than 5 questions (each test), and they will issue a computer print-out to carry along with your license. You have up to one year to do the agility course and get full license endorsement.

    Restrictions
    No night riding, no freeway riding, no carring passenger.

    Agility test
    This I have not yet done, but I questiond the DMV lady who administers it, and she says if you show up with a motorcycle with transmission, they saftey check the bike ALL lights and horn MUST work, and they have you go thru the gears a couple time, ride the course, ahd you get M1 license. If you show up on anything else with no transmission, all saftey checks apply and you drive the course, and if sucessful you get m2. I would NOT reccomend showing up with Motor-Bicycle unless it is Whizzer, or fully functioning MB with Brake lights for front and rear brakes, head and tailiites, and a horn.

    If you-all have any questions I'm sure I can answer them, or if not I can get you the answer in terms of CA, not elsewhere.
     
  14. JosephGarcia

    JosephGarcia Guest

    take a picture of your plates, i want to see what they look like.
     
  15. itskeith

    itskeith Guest

    So, more than 2 hp is considered a motorcycle?

    Thanks for delving deep into this subject,

    So, under 2 hp, one time registration through the mail.

    And, 2 hp or more, the motorbike is considered a motorcycle and subject to regular annual registration and required insurance and a motorcycle drivers license.

    Do I have this right?

    If so, is the larger (70cc) engine's performance really worth the extra hassle and expense?

    Thanks,

    ItsKeith
     
  16. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

  17. 70cc exposed, Identity confirmed!

    Hi Augidog, here's the history of the 70cc engine. At first, Spitfire (48cc only) distrubited by Steve Miller, supplied by Don Grube only sold 48cc engines from one factory in Shanghai area. Then Steve figured out how to cut out Grube. Grube contacted me, and I went to distributor level, having been a Spitfire Dealer. Meanwhile Don has found a north china factory, 48 roundheads, 60 squareheads, and a so-called 80cc (actually 69cc), which Steve has rejected from Don, this haoppens just before Steve goes Wildcatting.
    Others begine to backdoor Grube as the factory Owners Mr Chen in the south, and Mr Chu (I think) in the north, break thier "Exclusive" contract to Don for sale to US.
    Ebay floods with cheap bike engines without Don's improvements. Don is finally convinced (after mouths of me hounding him) that we need 9-hole sprockets (we had been redrilling them for almost 2 years) before I help Don design the 9-hole sprocket. This too get's given to the cheap e-bay box-sellers.
    Steve wants 1 gallon tanks to look more like Whizzers, so Mr Lee, of Singapore, at steve's bidding, has the 1 gallon tanks developed at the tank factory. Soon these are "Leaked" to the "box-sellers (you remember them don't you? the ones who offer no support, have no technical prowess, and no spare parts?).
    I start using the plastic throttles with the 90 degree noodle in the cable, along with the custom 9-holes, and other stuff, and I tell Don where to look for the throttles and also the push-button clutch lever, by now Don comes up with the BB idler.
    Fleabay comes alive, like a room full of roaches with the box-sellers and the low-grade engines (china bearings, 5-hole sprockets etc) untill the disloyal factories give most of our good stuff to the Boxers. Don is afraid to ship over 48cc to try to remain fully legal everywhere, the Boxers are overjoyed when they discover the Massive 80cc China-Bike Engines! I believe that it was the Boxers who started calling the 69cc an "80".
    We need to discrimanate between the old north-China 80cc (actually 69cc) and the better, newer designed 69cc Shanghai engine, we talked and Don decided to call the south engine by a true name 70cc.

    This is part of it, Mike
     
  18. JosephGarcia

    JosephGarcia Guest

    Re: So, more than 2 hp is considered a motorcycle?

    Not if they don't KNOW it's a 70cc.

    catch my drift?
     
  19. spunout

    spunout Member

    hahaha :lol: :lol: mike...how does the song go.."im just a soul who's intentions are good. oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood..." you didnt actually view this: http://www.motoredbikes.com/viewtopic.php?t=445 . if you had, you'd get what he means :p .
    later, friend 8)
    happy
     
  20. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    Although some of it is very good, what is all this OT stuff doing in a CA registration thread? Mmmm. :razz: Just kidding!
     
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