SBP shift kit design ripped off already

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by professor, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. professor

    professor Active Member

    Don't know if you guys know about it, but the exact design has been copied (right down to the photo of the bike) in China and is being sold by Dax.
    I am not happy about someone doing that and will remember it.
    I don't think the Chinese came up with this all by themselves either.
     

  2. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Member

    Yep,I saw it a little while back.It is exact but I believe SBP has much better bearings in there kit and thats a big plus.
    MotoMagz
     
  3. professor

    professor Active Member

    Yes. And I TRUST the SBP guys too.
     
  4. spunout

    spunout Member

    no, its very possible that they purchased a SBP kit on their own and copied it.
    it IS copied, no doubt about that, but i dont think anyone should speculate anything as to how/who/when, without some definitive proof. i understand the suspicion.
    Ghost-O did all the work and should be rewarded for his ingenuity, in the form of shift kit sales.
    the Chinese get enough of our money. lets keep the money local.
     
  5. Hawaii_Ed

    Hawaii_Ed Member

    wow, sorry to see that. SBP all the way!
     
  6. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Amen brother!


    Have fun,
     
  7. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Agreed. I don't run a HT, and I don't have s shift kit, but I definitely do not condone the theft of intellectual property. I followed the design of the unit, and this shows a definite lack of class, pure and simple. Definite lack of scruples emerging in the Chinese business plan imo. Yet another reason to boycott Chinese products as much as possible. SBP did a lot of work to develop the design, and they deserve the rewards. A company with a modicum of humanity would at least approach them for a licensing arrangement.
     
  8. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    you guys sound surprised... these are the people that knock everything off from Gucci bags to Ferarri's.

    I agree though... I dont condone theft of any kind let alone intellectual property. Sick bikes every time for me... even if it does cost more.
     
  9. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Remember guys, the HT was reclassified by the EPA and currently there are no HT's for 2010. (at least with EPA compliance) So once the current supply depletes, nobody will be selling the jackshaft kits for the 2 strokes as they all slowly fade away.
     
  10. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Except Harbor Freight.

    They'll be selling comparable small 2 strokes hooked to really cheap "tools" of various sorts for a goodly while. Saw a 900 watt genset today, 2 stroke 63 cc slant cylinder engine for $109. I pulled out my pocket rule, and measured - the rough dimensions of the engine are L 9.75" x W 5.5" x H 11". It is a CC rotation engine, and appears to be designed for a 4K rpm peak power band. Looks remarkably like a re-purposed moped engine.
     
  11. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    Now, maybe some people will understand the reluctance to show the insides of an EZM tranny,,,by buying a cheaper copy, you are only taking money out of 'Bubba's' mouth to feed 'Hop-Sing' (sorry for the bad analogy)

    if it isn't made here, I don't have much choice but to buy an import
    but, if it is, I would much rather my buck stays stateside :):):)
     
  12. Hawaii_Ed

    Hawaii_Ed Member

    They'll just buy that too and copy it :(
     
  13. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    That generator is not a re-purposed moped engine. It is a copy of a Yamaha ET-950 generator. I own one, and it is a very sturdy little generator. It can't be used for bicycles because the generator housing is cast as part of the engine crankcase. (and with a cast iron cylinder, it is pretty darned heavy!)

    As far as the guts of the EZM goes, I don't see anything patent worthy about it. Same goes for the shifter kit. Both are public domain kind of concepts. Now maybe the 2 speed that they are working on will have something really groundbreaking, or it could just be a "re-purposed" Comet two speed go kart transmission. (over-running clutch design)
     
  14. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Dunno AG, I;m obviously not a patent attorney, but I am given to understand that a material can't be patented, nor a use for an existing thing, but "the assemblage" is patentable. That would qualify both of them.

    On the other hand, patent laws don't protect you, you still have to pay the legal fees to protect your device, which generally the patent holder will win. Unfortunately the "patent jumper probably has had several years to accumulate a nice chunk of change. Kind of makes patents seem useless in the "cottage industry" scheme of things.

    I should educate myself on copyrights and various forms of protection the government supposedly provides. There may be a better way.
     
  15. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I'm not a patent attorney either, but there is nothing revolutionary or even clever in the EZM or SBP designs.
     
  16. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Nothing revolutionary, and probably not patentable, but Jim and Paul did come up with the idea, yet haven't even been given any credit. Also, if the photo is really one of SBP's....
    I'll buy mine from Sick Bike Parts.
    I had a (non-patentable) electronic design stolen and reproduced in Hong Kong some years ago. Patent or not, it's still theft, in my opinion.
    I've had good dealings with Dax and doubt that they would have been directly involved in the copying. Just the same...

    Should have added, often things aren't patentable because the intended market is small and patent costs are expensive, especially for the all-important US patent.

    ... Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  17. augidog

    augidog Banned

    this is the cost of prioritizing "free trade" over "fair trade"

    i'll stay out of the name-game, but i'm sure there's more than a few of us who are not surprised...

    but, let's be clear...anyone who knows where to look will find the early design & development discussions about several domestic MB-options right here on MBc...and you'll see that for the most part they all started in the public domain, and were actually spawned by other designs & components already being used elsewhere.

    so, noone's been "ripped off"...at the most, the sharing-public has been exploited here & there...and i'm still not very happy about how some of the commercial efforts have conducted/presented themselves...but please let's not hear any more about the "poor guys" who exploited and are now being exploited in return. it's an unregulated industry & everyone got into it with eyes wide open.

    and they were forewarned too...but shot the messenger for sake of a buck...my eyes were opened early on & i spoke out but GEEZ did i ever take a beating (and still do) over my "exposing" some peeps for what or who they really are.

    quit acting surprised or indignant...when the MB-consumer had the chance to exert some regulation (thru more discriminate purchasing) he/she did nothing and let the commercial aspect dominate the consumer aspect of our motorsport...you asked for it, you got it...and "i told you so" won't make a danged bit of difference now.

    so...how many peeps are gonna "switch sides" again this time i wonder? what a strange buncha birds this lil society has been to observe.
     
  18. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Besides my (perhaps biased) objections to the technical side, as mentioned, if the pic used by the Chinese supplier is taken from the SBP site, then someone certainly has been ripped off.

    ... Steve
     
  19. augidog

    augidog Banned

    legalities about illegal products...how absurd.

    don't just quote what's convenient...

    the rest of it with bold added:
    all some companies have actually done is successfully execute...while admirable, it's hardly rocket-science...in principle, the designs & concepts "belong" to the contributing & sharing members of MBc who posted the early ideas and links to working designs already in action elsewhere. good luck getting any successful vendor to openly admit MBc got them started tho.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  20. Ghost0

    Ghost0 Guest

    While I agree with most of what had been mentioned in this thread I would like to make a few comments. Am I surprised my (SBP) design was copied? No. Was the concept of transferring the engine drive to the right side of the bike and running it through a front freewheel a new concept? No, however I did think of it myself before I saw that it had already been done. What I did design and make unique was the method of mounting the jackshaft bearing plates and rear motor mount to the engine making it truly universal to all of the Chinese 2 stroke engines. This had not been done in this fashion before I did it. This is what made the SBP design, unique, affordable and marketable. Now we all know the Chinese copy stuff, was I surprised? No, we actually caught a Chinese manufacture attempting to sell a copy of our kit about 8 months after we began selling our kit. Just like today they were using photos of my bike taken from our website. I don't really have any point to make here other than stating the facts. I would also like to make sure that everyone know that DAX did not steal the design. He is simply selling something that he has purchased from a supplier in China. End of story.
     
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