Slow Start to my build-Logging.

Discussion in 'Frame Mounted Engines' started by BoltsMissing, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    I have no workshop advantage and minimal tools.

    Current bike,engine won't fit in the V of the frame. Have thought of chops and changes, but decided to not "go there" at this point in time.

    Fortunately I was able to purchase a ready made hack to get me going and get me around the local area for day to day errands.
    Purchased 5Ltr 2-Stroke Fuel mix container ( Green in color)
    Lounge/TV-Dining room is cleared to suit the build of my bike,eventually.
    Floor is/was, "lite beige" colored carpet !
    Removed all usless things from the dining cabinet ( mum and dad fotos etc and ect), my new engine parts now takes precedence of that dining cabinet in logical order, ready to be fitted to the bike.
    Tools are sorted on a large old wooden teak colored kitchen wall cabinet, not bolted to the wall for easy reach to the tools.

    Threaded accelorator cable into the carburetor and lube the inner cable with Teflon Lube oil. Cylinder in carburetor is lubed with some Teflon oil to.
    It's now hanging from it's cable thru the U-Bolt of the a bedroom door latch, so the lube runs down thru the cable over night.

    While waiting to score a bike from an auction next week if I don't find one before, I'll be looking around to change most nuts and bolts for some quality and cosmetic appearance on the engine.
    I need to score a camera, never done the camera thing before, I might upgrade my cell fone now that I could use a camera for a usefull purpose and post some pictures of my lounge-room workshop.

    Went to the Go-cart shop and bought a can of Spray Grease to lube the chain, but I have read here to get a better quality chain. I'll do that on
    my 2nd build.

    Thanks for this forum, the information is priceless and hope to put my $0.02 cents in.
    But definately hooked on these motored bicycles. Not interested in "top speed", just smooth, safe and reliable power assisted pedaling for most days use.

    Next Task/s:
    1.Log all nut, bolt and washer changes with size and part numbers for easier future reference on China motors.
    2.Find a good 2nd hand bicycle.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008

  2. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    Good Digital cameras can be had for just over $100. I wouldn't rely on one of those crappy camera phones personally even though I have one. Just not high enough resolution to get quality pics. Cool idea about the build log though. You're probably better off not being able to fit the engine directly onto your bike. I found I like having a pusher around even though I have a couple motoreds just because they're silent and light... This will probably change once I get an electric with pedal assist though. Keep us posted, we're here to help and I personally love seeing new motoredbikes hit the streets. puttputtputt vroooom!
  3. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    Thanks for advice on the camera SirJakesus, I was not sure to be honest and I think I'll keep the current cell fone.
    If I get a 2nd hand camera, is it imperative it MUST come with some sort of instalation disk for the PC ?
    I ask this because some friends had these cameras they scored, but no disk and couldnot utilize all the functions on a PC.

    Anyway, still at it.
    Last night I had the motor on the coffee-table-bench.
    I unscrewed the clutch lever plate and there is no way those same plate bolts are going back on. The top of the bolts simply disintegrated where the screwdriver fits in.
    I found some old allen key bolts from the hydraulic suspension pump off the Merc. but too short. They looked great though in place of the use once only China bolts.
    So I am at the stage off replacing all the nuts,bolts and washers, but not dismantling the engine just yet.
    What a difference in quality when haveing Merceds Benz nut's bolts and washers in comparison to China nut's bolts and washers next to each other. No comparison.
    Can the Chinese please up the ante in quality, for a change, on these minor points of nuts,bolts,washers and bearings ? Can they just up the quality by
    10 %, at least ??!!

    I will aslo remove the chain sproket and give that a bit of a polish with some fine wet&dry to remove the rough edges.

    What do you guys use to hold the crank from rotating while undoing the sprocket nut ?

  4. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    It's a good idea while your waiting for a bike to upgrade any nuts/bolts,studs etc u can.With the engine mounting studs(also intake/exhaust studs) get a couple of long rods the right metric size but DON"T cut the mounting studs just yet..u don't know exactly the length u need.U/F minimum purchase is $10 so get your moneys worth.
    60 Grand Junction, Kilburn SA 5084
    PH: 08 8300 8700 FAX: 08 8300 8777.

    Look around pawnshops(not Cash Converters)....i just bought a nice Giant Warp DS-1 dual suspension MTB for $170 for a rear rack mount.
    What i'm saying is bargains are out there..u just have to look and look and look.
    PS,excellent idea to get a camera...nothing speaks like pics.
  5. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    I'd hate to say it but buy a camera from wallyworld and have them tape the receipt to the box. If it doesn't work to expectations just bring it back for exchange or refund. They basically take anything back within a reasonable time with receipt since they're so large it doesn't hurt them at all. You could even get one with video mode and mount it up to get some motoredbike in action movies going on. For nuts, bolts, washers and threaded rod I go to Lowes and match the pieces up (also keep receipts in case you need to exchange) I dont think they sell allen bolts though, I think those would look really sharp on a happytime engine. My motorcycle AND mongoose MTB have them. They're great for stuff you have to torque down hard but not have to worry about stripping. I've really always hated slotted and philips head screws, they make no sense to me at all really.
  6. Scottm

    Scottm Guest

    I got Mr. Toad for $50 at a pawn shop. I have about 400 very happy fun miles on it now.
    I have the software to connect a phone to the computer. It is top quality POS. I have to re-install it anytime i want to use it. Go get a cheap digital camera, you'll be glad you did. Your parents must be very understanding to let you in the house with that stuff.LOL

    Sir, the Lowes and HD are starting to sell the deck screws with the torx heads and I think I've seen bolts with them too.
  7. eltatertoto

    eltatertoto Guest

    hey if you go to shtti city (circuit city) thay have like 50 dollar cams that say myspace or youtube ready! that should work ok, but ive never had anyt experience with that, but as long as you get a cam that takes stills (get 1 with a removeable card) you should be good, my printer has a whole bunco of card slots, so instead of using the cam cord, i save time, and just slip the card out, if youre worried about software get one with a card and you'll be good (im a nerd/ biker lol) if you dont have a card reader, wallfarts has em for 20 bucks, let me know if you need any help, ill be glad to :)
  8. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    fetor56, Thanks for that addy, I can roll there cos it's downhill and use the motored hack I have to get back up Grand J. No problem.
    And I avoid Cashys, their prices are a insult to humanity. Sometimes though one or 2 items might be of Value, but they seem to go by a strict code of robotic ethics. No wonder the one at Norwood closed down. I prefer to use pawnshops that have humans working there.
    SirJakesus Thanks, can't figure out why they have these slotted and cross screws either. Even the washers don's really work and spring the washers look someting like coat hanger wire and then flattened with a hammer.
    Scottm I don't have understanding parents, so I kicked them out !
    eltatertoto Thanks, we don't have WallFarts here, we K-Marts,Target and Harris Scarfes. My point is, I can get one for $25.00 used, BUT, has no books and no CD ROM to install drivers for the USB cable from the camera to the PC. That is what I am worried about. No Driver-Set-up Disk might mean the fotos just stay in the camera.

    Ongoing log

    As mentioned in my intro. post, I HAD this 450 SEL Merc.
    It is now, sadly, gone to scrap for $200.00, towed away, finally.
    I kept some of it's "jewels" though. All original books and reciepts, badges,Electric Sunroof Motor, First Aid Kit in original plastic box ( never used, so it still has the original bandage kit and scissors that came with the car in 1978) original Radio/Tape Deck and it still works, spare V8 engine crank-shaft will now be used for weight lifting, the spare alloy wheel and jack, and some other bits and pieces of memorbilia of that car. Oh yes, and I kept the lambs wool seat covers.
    All these bits and pieces might be required for the bike ! Ya never know...,

    Next innovative thing now that I have space under the carport, I dug out this back/spine inverter. It swings and has space making capabilities to hang a bike at either end and lift it off the ground high enough to work with and able to rotate the pedals. Some paint and a bit drilling will make a perfect workshop bike stand with a tool tray.

    Now I MUST get a camera and show all this.
  9. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    MOST drivers u can get off the internet and if it's a reasonable camera u don't need drivers anyway.Windows recognises it as an external device so u can access your camera easily that way.Software provided is mostly for doing other stuff(photoeffects etc)
    The botton line is scan through the instructions if u buy a new camera or get it operating if u buy a second hand camera....either way take a pic to test it's pic quality.
  10. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    Thanks Fetro, I'll a camera happening soon.

    Today of all days, well last night in fact, we went for a ride and my friends chain messed up so it was a pedal job for one of us, all the way from Fulham (outer west suburb) to Brompton ( inner west suburb).
    We bought roll of nylon rope ($5.00) at the all night servo on Port Rd and the 70cc did just fine towing the other motoredbike at 1.00 am Sunday from Brompton to Nth East suburb, up-c/hilling through the back streets.

    3.00 am we replaced the chain from the kit I'm building and my friend will replace it. The point is, it towed OK up the steep climb in Myrtle St Prospect while the towed bike rider pedled to take the strain off the 70cc that was towing.
    No problems whatsoever and crossing the main roads to the next back street was cool cos the only cars to watch out for are speeding taxis racing back to the city and a speeding yobo or drunk yobo driver. No cops were around at the time as we crossed the road, one bike towing the other !
    It was insanely sureal doing this but it works, we got home to change the chain and by 5.00 am my friend was away again at the break of dawn.

    Today's build efforts.
    I have decided to use the better of the 27'' frames to mount the engine and dismatel the Raliegh and use it's back wheel, it's a 26'' Wheel with 8 gear cassete.
    I've hung the frame onto the workshop bike stand under the carport and went to work.

    The rear wide wheel fitted ok, but only just with a bit of force to widen the rear fork thingy. It fits and spins freely.

    I need to get a camera now, this is starting to look cool.

    The problem I am facing is the gap between the front engine mount and the front down bar of the 27'' inch frame.( I bought this frame from a garagew sale for $2.00, all that was missing was the wheels, seat and handle bars were bent.

    The motor is currently mounted via the real mount to get the correct height so the left pedal arm misses the magneto cover of the engine when peddling.
    Once I work out how to fill that gap and stabalize the engine, the rest looks too easy to do.

    For now,I've position the engine by grinding some timber as a wedge between the bottom of the engine and bike's front down bar.
    Welding another tube on top of the existing front down bar might do it, it's a lite steel frame bike, I think.

    Anyone mounted these China engines on a 27'' race bike frame,some directions or ideas would be great and thanks in advance.

    While observing the new engine, I noticed these cast holes by the inlet manifold. Motor has compression and all else seem ok. I read on another thread someone else has a similar issue to. Will keep an eye on this when I start it up and hope it's not as glumpish as it seem to be.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  11. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    Ok, I hope it's ok to weld onto the front down bar.
    The bike's sticker say it's Hi-Tensile Steel Tubing.
    The brand is GREACROSS, I think they were a good Aussie bike in their time according to a few Googles.

  12. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    Today's work,
    Got most of the higher quality nut's, bolts and allen key bolts where possible.

    Slight change of plans to fit the engine,
    I'll have to use the "drill into front down tube" of the 27" frame option.
    For the space or clearance between engine and front down-tube, I was able to score some H/Duty round rubber mounts instead of filling the gap with heaps of washers on the centre bolt.
    To line up the excact centre of the where the hole will be drilled, most of my time today was making a special tool, like a sort of pin punch that bolted onto the fron part of the engine mount. When the motor seemed lined up square, the pointy end of the punch was able to pin a mark on the frame, precisely where the bolt hole will be drilled.
    To make the tool, all I had was a angle grinder, bench grinder ( unbolted on a kitchen table) and grinded a old bolt into shape and length till it fitted so to make the pin mark perfectly centre, and the height of the engine within the V corrected so the left pedal missed the the clutch lever plate cover when it rotated.
    Did not have time to go get this camera, yet.
  13. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    Good to hear you guys got back alright and didn't have to push back. I always keep some master links on me just incase my chain pops hopefully i'd be able to repair it for the ride home.
  14. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    I worked on the bike today, had a few snags lining up the engine so it's square with the bolt thru the front downtube and the rear mount.

    This is how it panned out;
    Front Mount:
    The hole I drilled is OK, by drilling a small hole with a 1/8" drill bit.
    It drilled OK with no "special effects".
    But using rubber dampers on either side of the bolt may cause a slight miss-allignment when tightening due to the rubbers compressing.
    I then made shims from large washers to take up more slack by grinding both sides of the washer and got the engine square with the rear mount.

    But the plate provided with the 3 holes, the centre hole where the bolt goes through, I need to grind the inside so it's rectangle and this will allow for fine adjustment by sliding the plate a fraction, so the 2 engine bolts line up square on either side. I want to avoid forcing the engine square by tightening, I'd rather have it all square and the tightness of all bolts is to hold the engine, not to sqaure it up, especially if a hole was drilled through the front down tube.
    Just a bit more time, but not a problem.

    Rear mount:The block piece between the rear mount and the engine I have added some leather to further take up some slack. I used a old leather trouser belt and cut 2 pieces. It fits square and tightens up OK.

    I fitted the Allen Key type bolts onto the engine covers on both sides, it looks a real treat and makes the engine look cool with black Allen Key bolts on alloy.

    Rear Wheel:
    I started to thread the rear wheel bolts with the sprocket, but I must have made a error of judgment when I purchased the Allen Key bolts, they seem too long, I'll go and get a new set and keep the ones I got for some other use.

    Conclusion so far:
    I think "China" ought to supply the plate with the 3 holes, the centre hole to be rectangular to allow for adjustmet by way of sliding through the centre bolt if that is the option.
    On a 27" wheel frame you need to have that option cos if the engine is too low, the left pedal hits the bottom of the Magneto Cover Plate.

    Other than these minor hicups, I see no problem,yet.

    Ongoing issue, I saw one for $150.00 at a pawn shop.
    I think I'll wait a bit more or borrow one.
  15. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Sounds like it's all coming together...the only thing i'm not keen on is that 2 piece leather belt cos i think you'll be continually taking-up slack as the engine vibrates and compresses the leather.It'll be an annoyance and you'll have enough of them initially.
    Aluminium spacers are good and if u can get the thickness one single spacer...use the spacer/spacers and the supplied engine mount with rubber inner tube between that and the frame.
  16. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member


    Motor is now bolted and secure onto frame.

    Got several pics but the file size of each is too large for the forum's file upload limits.
    How does one upload their pics. correctly ?
  17. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    AHaaa !
    Got it, gotta rush, but will get back to it later
    Pic 1 and I'll put in the rest later

    Attached Files:

  18. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Keep at it man,you'll get there.
  19. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    Some of the build stage pics so far, got the Allen Key bolts on the engine covers.
    Since these pics where shot, I have adjusted the plate so it can slide on the centre bolt.
    The engine then lined up to fit the 2 side bolts.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  20. A fellow skinny tire rider!