Snapped Piston Rings and Head Bolt

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by echelonunit37, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    i took my engine apart 2 weeks ago to take a look at the cylinder. I took the head and sleeve off and cleaned off the top of the piston (for some reason there was a bunch of gunk on there). When I was trying to put the jug/sleeve back on, I got really frustrated while trying to put the rings back in and i ended up snapping a little bit off of both rings. As if that wasn't bad enough, When I was tightening down the head bolts, I accidentally snapped the front-left one. Despite all of the wisdom you guys give, I made that crucial mistake of not using a torque wrench. So no need to say, I lost a bunch of compression and torque. And after riding it for about a week, my engine was just SOAKED in oil and ****. Now, I'm not sure if the actual head bolt missing is the problem or if it's just leaking from the head gasket. Also, Are the piston rings worrisome or can I keep them in there and replace them somewhere around Christmas?
     

  2. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    How I look at it.........
    The cylinder studs are like your legs...cut one off, and the rings are like lungs...remove part.

    Why people don't heed advise of others and then come on here and admit it, and now is asking for help....go back to all the advise you blew out the window and use the search mode....enough said.
     
  3. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    Alright man. I understand your frustration. I had college the next day and I was just trying to get my MB back together so I had some kind of transportation. I just figured I'd put a thread up for my specific combination of problems. I don't mean to disrespect you or anybody else on here. I just need help. As soon as I get money, my bike is getting the grand treatment. I need to keep it running until then or until I get my Bug up and running.
     
  4. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    this is why a ring compressor does wonders.
    There are 4 head studs for a reason, if the head gasket could be sealed by using 3 studs, then that's how the engines would be made.
    of corse this is the reason why your engine lost compression, this is the same as having holes in your lungs (as Al said).
    the reason your engine is soaked in oil is because the oil is being blown out of the head gasket where the broken stud is.

    All the "Gunk" on top of your piston was more than likely oil residue(which is normal).
    I don't know why so many people do not understand the phrase "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Why did you take the engine apart for anyway? was there a problem, or were you just curious?
     
  5. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    I knew why it lost compression and where the oil was coming from. The reason I took it apart was I was trying to find a replacement stud. I needed to take the jug off to remove the remaining stud. I had opened up my engine before(when it wasn't turning over) so I figured there would be no problem doing this again to retrieve the stud.
    I may be only 18 years old but my life mission is to show that my generation isn't completely idiotic and hands-off. I've recruited friends of mine into the MB community and they say themselves that there is no better way to spend a weekend than tinkering and riding these things. If we make a few mistakes on the way, so be it. I just ask you guys for a little patience.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  6. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    ok, i didn't know that the stud was broken before you took it apart.
    so you took it apart to replace the broken stud...makes more sense now.
    I applaud you for diving in and trying to fix it then.

    The fact that you are 18 has nothing to do with it, and as a matter fo fact, i'm glad to see a teenager who takes the initiative to fix an engine. seriously, most "kids" these days would just throw it away and buy a new one.
    It's great that you are doing this.
    I hope you didn't think i was tryng to make you seem like an idiot.
    We all have to learn somehow, and this is the best way to learn. get in there and get your hands dirty.
     
  7. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    So my engine runs fine for the moment. Just lost compression because of the obvious leak in the head gasket. I guess my only question is about the piston rings. There is a larger gap in the circumference on both rings. Is the consequence just lost compression or do I need to worry about something worse?
     
  8. icci

    icci New Member

    Just replace that one stud for now

    Why don't you just replace that stud?
    It should only cost a few dollars, and you should able to ride it for a while untill you have money to fix it up right.
    That's what I would do if thus happen to me.
    K
     
  9. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    Yeah, I'm making a trip down to Ace later today. I need some American Steel! Not this Chinese quality ****. Instead of using acorns on the studs, what should I use?
     
  10. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Just use standard nuts, along with decent replacement studs. Torque to about 12 foot-pounds and Bob's your uncle.

    If I were you, I wouldn't run the engine until the stud and rings are replaced.
    You're risking over-heating at the moment.
    As motorpsycho said, it's good that you're having a go, but patience is a virtue, so wait until you get the new parts.
    (My 2c worth)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  11. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    Aussie, could I richen the air/fuel ratio to lessen the danger of overheating? It's honestly my only transportation until I can get my 66' Bug running...
     
  12. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    what will happen is that you will lose compression where that ring gap is at. this will allow blowby, which will result in gas AND oil getting into the crankcase where the bearings are. Gas will wash the oil off the bearings, and you will have little to no lubrication.
    the other thing is that the broken ring will continue to break as the engine runs. It will chip and crack in small peices, and if a big enough peice breaks off, it could lock up the piston.
    not to mention that the cylinder will not wear evenly which will make the cylinder out of round. This would be a long term effect and it would result in the piston and rings fitting very loose in the cyliner, or the piston eventually cocking sightly sideways in the cylinder causing it to lock up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  13. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    Well what is really your story?? From how I read it the stud wasn't broken to start with.
     
  14. a/c man

    a/c man Member

    Hey Steve.... glad to see you're back
    haven't heard your wisdom for awhile.

    TIM
     
  15. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    Motorpsycho: I'll heed your warning. Riding around on this thing is not worth permanent damage to the engine or seizing. I'll try to get replacement parts ASAP.

    Al Fisherman: What is this? An interrogation?? I accidentally got two different situations switched. The FIRST time I removed the jug, I got the rings in right without damage but snapped the stud. The SECOND time I removed the jug, I snapped the rings. Are you happy now? This is supposed to be a COMMUNITY of people with like interests. You don't need to go over others posts with a fine-tuned comb and point our their small mistakes. Honestly, lets keep the unity.
     
  16. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Thanks Tim. I haven't been riding lately but I'm still interested in these little beasts.
     
  17. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    With all due respect sir :), we are discussing a 2-stroke engine here. Gas and oil are supposed to get into the crank case. I think that you are confusing a 4-stroke operation with a 2-stroke operation.

    In keeping with the thread,
    Broken/ chipped piston rings will lower the compression ratio. A missing cylinder stud will result in a leaky cylinder head gasket, lowered compression, and possible damage to the head or cylinder gasket surface at the point of leakage if the engine is operated for an extended period of time while the problem still exists.

    It's a cheap engine. You might get lucky and it may hold up until you can replace the stud and rings, or get your '66 Bug going (I personally like that, had a '65 years ago). If it craps out on you, buy another engine kit when you can.
    I applaud your efforts on repairing your engine. Everyone makes mistakes.
    True, it's better to learn from others mistakes and heed the notes and warnings shared on this site, but everyone has a different learning curve and personally making the mistake yourself typically results in a lesson that will never be forgotten.
    Keep your chin up, torque wrench in hand, and get-er-done!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  18. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member


    An interrogation?? No not at all but how can a question be answered if the question isn't asked properly. We can go with the typed word only and can't read the intent of the writer.
     
  19. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Also, possible distortion of the head and maybe the cylinder. That will happen very quickly.
    (I was brief in my reply last night because I couldn't imagine intentionally running any engine with broken rings or a stud missing.)
     
  20. echelonunit37

    echelonunit37 Member

    I got the extra money for the rings and stud. I'll be taking a trip to E-Z Cycles soon. Grade 8 right?
     
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