Some questions for a newcomer

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by merlinfire, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    I first posted about 3 years ago when the bug bit me, but I got distracted and didn't come around for a while. Now I'm back and really want to get rolling this spring. So I have a few questions. I know some might be opinion type questions but I'd like to hear your opinions.

    First let me tell you what I want to do with the bike - and tell me what you think would be best. I recognize that maybe not all of this is practical and some may even be mutually exclusive with current technology and market offerings. I have never driven a motorcycle either so some things may not be as obvious to me.

    I live about 6 miles out of town. I typically drive a car when I need to go, but I'd like to get a little exercise while turning a chore into something fun. I might also like to just sort of cruise around and discover new places. I need at least a little cargo capacity. Would like to be able to kick the motor in just when I need it, while rolling, and otherwise pedal without too much extra resistance from the engine (besides the extra weight of course). If this can be done by clutch manipulation, it would be nice if I didn't have to hold the clutch in to keep it from turning the engine over. Finally I prefer not to smell like gasoline everywhere I go.
     

  2. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    If you have a bike in mind, I think we can start there.
     
  3. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    Probably a general all-purpose bike. I did a little bit of Googling and it seemed to suggest a hybrid bike is the right form factor, but I am open to specific suggestions for sure
     
  4. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

    A motor bike would be great for such distances. A well built and maintained motorbike can eat up 12 mile trips and make them fun. You will want to carry tools so a backpack or a rear rack would cover any need for cargo.

    The HT 2 stroke is a short trip vehicle. You will find that any kind of real touring is out.
     
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  5. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    As Timbone mentioned, your requirements perfectly match a motorized bicycle. The only thing you have to decide now is either a 2-stroke or 4-stroke. I think from your mentioning that you don't want to smell like gasoline you probably prefer a 4-stroke.

    4-strokes are typically more expensive (about $100 difference) than 2-strokes but require less maintenance and assembly. A 4-stroke requires more space if you were to mount it traditionally in the frame of the bike. This precludes many mountain bikes though I've seen recently a big body mountain bike that can fit it. 2-stroke requires oil and gas premixing, which sucks these days because of the way gas containers nozzles are redesigned so you might get a smell of gas there.
     
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  6. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    Thanks for the replies. Timbone would you elaborate on why the 2 stroke HT would not be good for touring. Though I am leaning towards 4 stroke.

    As to the question of pedaling without the motor, and kicking it in only when needed, how practical is that? Seems like all the four strokes require pulling a starter cord?
     
  7. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    Another question, I'm just full of them, I'm kind of a big guy with some weight issues which is why I'm trying to get into biking and want to pedal primarily with the engine for backup. Will the fact that I am overweight make any difference as to the configuration? I hear people talk about the number of teeth on sprockets as it relates to torque and I assume that the engine displacement will also play a part. in my state getting above 50 cc makes it a motorcycle
     
  8. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    The maximum 50cc requirement still allows you to have either a 2-stroke or 4-stroke. Being willing to pedal and truly use the motorbike as a pedal assist (most of us here use it as a pseudo motorcycle) helps with being a bigger person. The number of teeth is a trade off between torque and speed; the more teeth = more torque and less speed, the less teeth = more speed and less torque. The kits come with a stock 44T sprocket though some vendors allow you to pick the default sprocket. One teeth reduction roughly = 1 mph. I am a speed person so I would rather pedal a little in the beginning and on hills and have a higher max speed than vice versa. But, I am a smaller person so I cannot say what is best for you. The 4-stroke and 2-stroke pedal dynamic works as follows for 4-stroke you start the engine usually at the beginning of your ride and just pedal as needed (has an auto clutch) and for a 2-stroke you will pull in your clutch to a lock position (handle provides this) and pedal and release the clutch (open) when you want the motor. Also, my state really don't care about cc and I bought my engine off ebay (no receipt, no proof). Others might chime in but if you want proof of cc you might have to buy it from an actual vendor with actual receipts. Cheers
     
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  9. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    thanks for that response, this helps a lot. so it sounds like I'm looking for a 2 stroke then. i wonder how many times anyone has ever been "busted" or "made" for running a 66cc in a 50cc state or something? just thinking out loud.

    there's a local shop in cincinnati called mgm motorized bicycles that deals in 2 stroke motorbikes.
     
  10. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    "
    for a 2-stroke you will pull in your clutch to a lock position (handle provides this) and pedal and release the clutch (open) when you want the motor"

    Just to clarify this. You pedal and release the clutch and this starts the motor. The motor stays on until you stop it with either the choke or kill switch (if working). It is possible to set the idle so low that when you come to a stop or pull in the clutch it will stop the motor. To restart the motor, you will need to pedal again and then release the clutch. Hope that helps. Concerning the legality, no comment I don't want to tell you the wrong thing but if some anal cop or courts or some official demands proof then you have one with a receipt. There is no way someone unfamiliar with 2-strokes will be able to tell the difference between a 49cc and 66cc.
     
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  11. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    is it possible to actuate the choke/kill switch while rolling? :)
     
  12. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    Yes. I guess you can buy another clutch lever and cable and then attach that to the choke level on the carb with a spring (~$20). Just have to keep it secure and aligned properly with the choke lever on the carb. Then place this choke lever somewhere on your bar with your other clutch and two brake levers (if you are not going cruiser). That is a lot of levers on your handle bar. You can then choke out or turn off the engine by pressing on your choke lever when your clutch is in or locked. It is possible and not too difficult to do.

    Or you can just reach down and turn on the choke by the carb...
     
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  13. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    Sounds great! Thanks.
     
  14. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

     
  15. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    Timbone, are you saying that a bike with a 2-stroke engine installed will be significantly harder to pedal even with the clutch disengaged?

    Are there ways to reduce that vibration to comfortable levels?

    Thanks
     
  16. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    There is some resistance because even with the engine disengaged you still need to turn the chain and drive sprocket. It isn't that bad. And you mentioned that you wanted to get some exercise so it would definitely do that if you want to pedal. I had a 1KW ebike rear wheel kit and the 2-stroke and I would say the resistance is a bit more with the 2-stroke but not unmanageable especially if you are somewhat fit or want to be fit.

    As for the vibrations there are but you mentioned that there is local motorized bike shop so after you build yours you can definitely have to them take a look over it and help improve the vibrations.
     
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  17. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

    First of all, if you go with a centrifugal clutch, then you eliminate the drive chain drive. With the two chain, one gear HT setup, the motor chain will be moving through whenever the rear wheel turns.

    Motor chain drag through resistance depends on the particular motor. I can tell you that my current 69cc HT has very high resistance. I don't pedal any more than I need to! And any big climb, well, it's a mountain. Motorized bikes are heavy. The pedaling is good for things like cutting through a bike path or for working around traffic jams by rolling up the sidewalk. If you wanna be a cyclist, get a good bicycle!
     
  18. merlinfire

    merlinfire New Member

    Yeah...I was really hoping there was a good solution that worked out something like "ride it like a slightly heavier bike, and then get the assist up hills".

    Is there a setup that's known to have low resistance when the motor is disengaged?
     
  19. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

    A direct drive type that could be pulled off the rear wheel would work. Or use a centrifugal clutch. But the standard two chain set up will always have some degree of drag.
     
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  20. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    A lot also depends on how much slack you have in your drive chain. I have about 1.5-2.5 inch of play which makes pedaling not impossible. I am also running a standard 2-stroke 66cc kit, not any high compression head or etc. Going on a flat road is manageable and I'm real out of shape.
     
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