Stage 3 Simple Heavy Duty Clutch Solution

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by bideronit13, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    I have a stage 3 tranny and gxh50 motor on a SBP platform.
    I've been looking real hard for some clutch ideas on how and were to get heavy duty springs and how some other ideas include lightening the shoe with a drill by drilling weight out of the shoe.
    So after finding that my issue is a little more severe then others due to the 80cc carb and low end torque causing a jerking clutch chatter.
    So I am just going to get some washers that will fit under the springs while still allowing the screw to go through. This will cause more tension on the spring creating a solution.
    Hope it also works for you.

  2. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Member

  3. Barnfresh

    Barnfresh Member

    Yes, pictures please. I'm having a hard time visualizing how you are increasing spring tension. Are you running the old style clutch?
  4. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    Its the only clutch I ever had so I cant compare with anything. It came with the stage 3 from bicycle-engines.
    So the spring goes down the hole in the shoe. But before I put the spring in I'll put about 3 or 4 washers to tighten tension.

    Heres the add at bicycle-engines

    Then here's a clutch they sell that has the same bolt going through the shoe.

    I uploaded a few more pics.

    So the stronger the tension on the spring the harder it is for the clutch to engage. So instead of ingageing at normal rpm what ever it is I dont know off hand the clutch will engage at 3000rpm like a $70 clutch below from stanton

    You really want the clutch to engage at an rpm like 3000 so you can come to a stop without the motor jerking and clutch chatter at low rpm then the engine stalls out or you stretch chains and other bad stuff.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  5. Barnfresh

    Barnfresh Member

    I see exactly what you are doing now. I didn't realize the kit came with it's own clutch. Are you running your set up wet or dry?
  6. Wont work imo.
    You still using the same spring, with the same amount of tension............. puting a couple washers behind will only make the springs want to engage earlier,not later
  7. Barnfresh

    Barnfresh Member

    Sorry 2 cycle but I think bider is on the money with this one. Just stop and think about it for a minute. Increasing spring tension with washers should raise the stall speed or RPM where the clutch comes in then locks up. Too many washers though and you could have spring bind.
  8. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    Correct Barnfresh
    Another way of looking at is more tension from heavy duty spring is nothing more then more tension from a light spring and your right about to many washers so you might not get it on the first try.
    I first greased the stage 3 with just heavy grease from wal-mart. It actually broke down into oil and Im looking at using a different grease.
    It never ends I tell ya.
  9. Im not so sure.....

    Ive stopped, Ive thought about this already.
    Thats how I came to my conclusion Mr Barnfresh.
    Yes, stronger springs will change the clutch engagement RPMs..................BUT....................
    Just puting a few washers behind the original springs will not create stronger spring tension, it will only make the springs want to push the shoes outward easier/earlier.
    If it was as easy as placing a few washers in there lots and heaps of members would be doing this instead of spending there hard earned on tougher springs.
    I guess we will just have to wait for old mate to try it to see what will really happen??
    Also lightening the clutch shoes by drilling weight from them will also make them slightly easier to pivot, thus making engagement earlier..................
    Placing a few washers behind the springs is not creating more tension at all.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  10. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

  11. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    You can use the search engine on this site to find that the drill hole method to lighten the shoe is proven and tested. Since I have a bunch more torque I plan on using both the drill the hole method and maybe 2 or 3 washers.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  12. Barnfresh

    Barnfresh Member

    Well 2Cycle you had me second guessing myself on the spring tension thing so I went back to the website to look at a breakdown of the clutch.

    What I found was that they had a pretty elaborate bench testing setup to show exactly when their clutch engaged and locked in. They also explain exactly how to change the stall speed on their clutches to make it higher or lower. Care to guess how it's done.....that's right, by adding or removing washers under the springs.

    If the link doesn't work just copy to your browser.

    Also your statement that lightening the clutch shoes by drilling weight from them will also make them slightly easier to pivot is not entirely correct. The shoes do not pivot rather they simply slide outward from the hub on 2 pins (against the spring tension). Being that the shoes have been lightned they should require more centrifugal force to overcome the (same) spring tension resulting in a higher RPM before the clutch engages.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  13. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

  14. Tooshay Mr barnfresh!!
    Well I cant argue with that now, can I ??
    Still dont seen logical to me though??:detective:
  15. Oh, I said pivot cause I was looking at a pocket bike type clutch before I wrote that post, and must have been thinking about that one???
  16. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    Well as soon as I find a way to beet the big payout the technical stuff comes along.
    So anyway I wrote an email with the specs I need on the springs. So if tell me there like 30 buck or something Im getting some washers.
    The other site guy gave me an estimate on the LBs per inch the stock clutch comes with and an accurate lbs per inch I want to get to is 60lbs/inch.
    So the washers only have to be 20% of 21mm.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
  17. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    I happen to be polish and if your trying to get on team bideronit13 then I have some email's you can handle for me.
    You know what the say but I kinda disagree that it takes 5 polocks to shim a spring.
  18. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    Actually after looking at the web site they already recomend using washers. Read it for yourself. Certainly I dont know what to say about your posts.
  19. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    HD clutch

    Of course it will work Biderman, I don't know why 2cycle can't see it. The spring stay's in the same place, It just gets more tension on it with washers. You could put them on top or bottom with the same results. It will just take a few more RPM's before it ingages.
    Big Red
  20. bideronit13

    bideronit13 Member

    I had a chat email with bicycle-engines and they have confirmed that the stage3 is still in production and that is comes with the same springs as the G4. So it engages at over 3000rpm but with unknown torque just rpm measure.
    So I'd probley need a tachometer to prove but since my bike has alot of torque mine engage in a more choppy method since the torque is there.
    I was waiting for the confirm so now I only have a wet clutch option to work with.
    So in this situation the G4 would not be good because of no wet clutch option.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011