Starfire Theory

[motorbiek]

Hello All.

I just ordered this engine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/66cc-80cc-b...ash=item25c2c6b71b:g:SH4AAOSwWnFV-eJ9&vxp=mtr

I saw the ad was ending soon, and I have been considering buying one for a long time. In the past I used another 6mm studded engine that was one of the best riders I have ever had. (Lives on a friends bike) Now, I am like 90% sure that these engines are manufactured by the same factory that manufactures the starfire engine kits. I have read that the starfire engines are some of the best runners, and my previous experience with the 6mm engine also would lead me in that direction.

Now, why do I think this engine is made by the same manufacturer as Grubee's Starfire? Well. its in the details.

The factory is NanTong JiaLi Gas Engine Factory.

Both engines appear to use the (non-caged lower bearing) ZL rod. (This, according to my research, is a 40mm rod)

Most of the details appear to be totally the same between the two: same style acorn nuts, castings etc. Magneto outlet are identical.

Not to mention Grubee says the starfire engines are (were?) manufactured by nantong: "Changzhou China GAS Export & Trading Co., Ltd. was started in January 2005. We are a licensed export agency located in Changzhou City, Jiangsu Province, China about 200 km northwest of Shanghai between Wuxi and NanJing.
We are contracted with 2 factories as their exclusive sales, export and marketing arm for their 2 cycle engines. YuanDong gas engine factory and NanTong JiaLi gas engine factory.
(http://chinagas.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html)

So the question really is about whether BGF is selling the same engines. Im buying one as a test and we shall see.

This also peaks my interest because of its potential direct compatibility with this kit without case modification. https://www.treatland.tv/puch-70cc-tccd-kit-p/puch-tccd-kit-45mm.htm Using a 3mm spacer to raise the cylinder to the correct deck height.

And Using this piston: http://www.ebay.com/itm/45mm-Piston...ash=item5b16604577:g:PvYAAOSwnHZYc0LX&vxp=mtr

In the pictures below: first picture is of a bottom end BGF sells, second is of the Starfire engines Grubee shows on their website. (very similar). Third is the engine I bought. 4th shows the starfire cranks from grubee site

 

[crassius]

as I understand it, that 45mm kit will take you to 60cc (same stroke, smaller bore)

 

[Street Ryderz]

Ok so the first link of the one you said you ordered is not a starfire! The easy way to tell them apart is that sarfire engines have a logo cast in to the case you can see it there in pic!Also when you open one up and look at the crank it's 17mm and uses 6203 bearings the same as a grubee rat or mouse version! Also the puch cylinder is a 45mm bore it wont fit a 45mm piston!lastly the pic of two starfires they are 50cc engines witch can still be found here and there but the 66cc is hard to come by I have been searching for one or even just the case halfs for some time now!

 

[motorbiek]

Ok so the first link of the one you said you ordered is not a starfire! The easy way to tell them apart is that sarfire engines have a logo cast in to the case you can see it there in pic!Also when you open one up and look at the crank it's 17mm and uses 6203 bearings the same as a grubee rat or mouse version! Also the puch cylinder is a 45mm bore it wont fit a 45mm piston!lastly the pic of two starfires they are 50cc engines witch can still be found here and there but the 66cc is hard to come by I have been searching for one or even just the case halfs for some time now!

interesting!! thx for the info. at the very least I would be willing to bet that they are made at the same factory. the starfire is probably made out of some different parts as its no name brother, but I do have a hunch that there is some part similarity. (possibly same crank, but different cases?) I'm very curious to recieve the motor and see. Im really not sure but this whole part similarity thing has been fascinating me for a long time.

edit: I can't see why the piston wouldn't fit. foureasy used a 47mm China piston on a 47mm puch kit.

another interesting thing I just found... a some other stuff NanTong JiaLi makes carries the same logo as the starfire motor. like this thing:

 

[Street Ryderz]

interesting!! thx for the info. at the very least I would be willing to bet that they are made at the same factory. the starfire is probably made out of some different parts, but I do have a hunch that there is some part similarity. (possibly same crank, but different cases?) I'm very curious to recieve the motor and see.

edit: I can't see why the piston wouldn't fit. foureasy used a 47mm China piston on a 47mm puch kit.

Ok so a 47mm piston cant be used in a 47mm cylinder because it wont fit!our 66cc cylinder is 47mm and the piston is 45mm so that it fits inside the cylinder with it's rings fitted and has some room for heat expansion!Also the starfire engines have been discontinued for some time now!And that factory now produces the zeda engines!I am still waiting for the north american reps for zeda to confirm if they are still using the bigger cranks and bearings, I have been bugging them for months now with no reply!And they cant use the same cranks and different cases because again they wont fit the case has to have bearing bosses for the 40mm o.d. of the 6203 bearing all the other cases have smaller bosses!

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Ok so a 47mm piston cant be used in a 47mm cylinder because it wont fit!our 66cc cylinder is 47mm and the piston is 45mm so that it fits inside the cylinder with it's rings fitted and has some room for heat expansion!

The 66cc / "80" pistons measure ~47 mm in diameter!
They are Not 45mm.

 

[Street Ryderz]

The 66cc / "80" pistons measure ~47 mm in diameter!
They are Not 45mm.

Check again I just measured a swelled 66 piston and it's 46.2mm! 47mm dia exactly would almost be a press fit in a 47mm bore there has to be room for expansion from heat!

 

[gary55]

Well no they are not actually 47mm neither the cyl. or the piston is. Still you order a 47mm piston for a 47mm cyl. because nobody wants to order a 46.75mm piston for a 47.06mm cyl.. God only knows how much these numbers vary. With .0065" clearance on each side I guess there is some wiggle room. Good thing we don't have to take them to the machine shop each time to match them. A little soft slap on the bottom of a skirt once in a while isn't the worst thing I have ever done, just don't like it in my engines.