Starter / Generator Available for Genuine TLE43?

Proudest Monkey

Proudest Monkey

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Hey guys,


I'm a noob here, I just registered a few days ago, but I've been visiting the forums for awhile now. Thanks largely to this site, I decided to buy an FD unit (with a name brand motor).
I ended up ordering a Mitsubishi TLE43 FD kit from Dimension Edge, and I'm counting the hours until the UPS guy knocks on the door.

Anyhow...I've found threads on here talking about starter / generator units for the 49cc Mitsu clones, and I was just wondering if you could use one of these starters on the real Mitsus, or if there were an OEM starter maybe???

I'm gonna keep running my cluster of AA powered head & tail lights for now, but I wanted an easy way to charge a 12v motorcycle battery whenever the engine is running.

Any help would be muchos nachos.
Thanks

John
 
I took the starter/generator off an old clone engine, and took some measurements. The TLE43 mounting holes for the pull starter don't have the same hole pattern as the clone, so, unless you rig up an adapter, it won't work.
 
Thanks Loquin!

Actually, after I posted the question and really started to think about it...what with the potential hp loss of running a generator, I decided to maybe look into a solar trickle charger instead.

Thanks for taking those measurements and answering my question!
 
Hey Loquin,


The more I keep thinking about it, I'd like to go ahead and buy the generator just to have it as an option (I have a couple of machinist friends, so fabrication shouldn't be a problem). I know I'll have to get a voltage regulator etc., but I"d love to have a simple, lightweight way to charge my ATV battery (if it's do-able).

Is this a pretty good representation of the old Mitsu clone that you were talking about measuring?
http://www.fancyscooters.com/item02386-scooter-part-whole-engine-49cchs-2-stroke.html

If so, could you take a look at the following links, and tell me if any of these would be strong contenders?

This one looks like a really strong contender, since it appears to already come set up for a keyed shaft:
http://www.scooterparts4less.com/web_gas/Electric_starter.htm

This one looks like the exact same starter that comes with the 49cc Mitsu clone:
http://www.fancyscooters.com/item00412-scooter-part-starter-type-b-hs.html

This one looks like it has roughly the same bolt pattern as the previous two, so I'm guessing it would work as well:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/elstfor43en.html

Any input would be awesome, if I could get a generator on my bike I could start touring in no time.
 
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The power loss would be minimal - probably less than 5% of the engine output, even at full generator output.

The first (and third) Starter/Generator (S/G) appears to be the one I have.

You have two approaches you could take. First, you could construct an adapter plate to go between the S/G and the engine. You would also need another adapter plate at the other end, to fasten the existing pull start to the generator. (I would stay away from the clone pull starters - from what I've heard, they're nothing but junk)

The brush end of the S/G has a tapered, keyed female 'socket,' which mates with the motor shaft. So, the thickness of the adapter will also be critical.

The other alternative is to build up an end-cap for each end of the S/G, so you could add a sprocket or pulley, and mount & drive the S/G off the drive-train somewhere. This would require two bearings at each end, and some custom machining of the shafts. On the brush end, the shaft (probably .5 inch) would have to be turned down on a taper, and keyed to fit the S/G. Since the brushes protrude past the body of the S/G, you'd also need a spacer.

On the other end, machine threads to the end of a shaft, or bore a hole through the shaft lengthwise, & use a bolt to hold the shaft into place. (You could possibly get away with one bearing at this end.)
 
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Thanks again for all your input Loquin!

I'm still amazed at the collective knowledge base on this forum, and how willing everyone seems to be to help each other out with the technicals, even sending each other free parts! ... I think everyone here might just be high on goodwill and 2 stroke fumes... And I don't intend to bogart, but it's gonna take me awhile to get up to speed with you guys. I come from a background of millwrighting, so I understand the general physics, but not tuned down to such an ultra-lightweight, microcosmic? scale. The knowledge base here is absolutely phenomenal, you guys know small motor application like a pilot knows his airplane.

SO down to business - Your advice put me on the fast track, and I already ordered almost everything I should need to complete a 12v charging system for my Mitsu.

Here's the starter/generator that I ordered:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/elstfor43en.html
(It says it comes with the 4 long bolts already included)

Here's the 12v solenoid I ordered:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/re50hostscen1.html

Here's the rectifier I ordered:
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/re50gy6scen.html
(I just realized that it "this regulator is commonly used on 4 stroke motors", do you think it will matter, or should I order the one that's recommended for 2 strokes in my cc range?)

And here's the engage switch I ordered..I just hope it's actually a 3 position?:
http://www.scooterparts4less.com/web_electric/KeySwitch_blue.htm
(It's the one pictured bottom right: ATV 50cc/70cc Black Key switch - Narrow Plug, 4 Wire)

I also ordered a couple of their "Electric Starter Spacers" which I'm hoping to use as the foundation for one/both of my adapter plates.. I'm hopeful my dad can mig/tig something together. I'm also hoping to incorporate the factory pullstarter back into the rig, since batteries die (and I ordered the heavy duty clutch, mounted in an FD unit).

So my (final) 4 questions would be:
1.a Do you think it's likely that I'll have to fab/buy some kind of crankshaft extension(s), coupling(s), or coupler(s)?
1.b The likely prognosis for re-incorporating the OEM pullstarter?
(I'll understand if those are both ridiculous questions that you'd have no way to answer at this point, I just thought I'd see if maybe you've already done this exact upgrade before)

2. I'm sure the starter and spacers are gonna be cased in some kind of lower quality alloy(s), so do you think I should even bother trying to mig/tig to the starter or "spacers" that were ordered?

3. Should I buy the regulator recommended for 50cc 2 strokes, or would the 4 stroke regulator work?


This is the last time I'll bug you about this.... I swear. I could probably figure it all out once everything arrives, but for some reason a build goes so much faster when you're operating with confidence. Even simple machines stress me out and slow me down when I've never worked with that kind of system before. Thanks again man!
 
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The first thing I would do is remove the pull starter, and get some good measurements on the existing mounting hole pattern.

I believe the adapter should be something like the sketch below. You would have two holes at the top that (as I recall) should match up with the S/G, so the bolts would go through the M/G tabs through the adapter, to the engine. You have two mounting holes at the bottom that are wider, so, you would need a countersunk pair of holes to use in fastening the adapter to the motor. And, there would be two tapped holes at the bottom which match the hole pattern for on the S/G, used to faster the S/G to the adapter.
 

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Thanks Loquin!

You practically built the thing for me.
Can't wait for everything to arrive in the mail!

I'll be the first bike in my town with a cb radio and a 5' antenna!
 
I don't know if that regulator is the right one - it appears to be intended for the full-sized GY6 4-stroke scooters. (with the one-piece engine/transaxle)

The one for the clone 2-strokes with the 'pull-start' S/G looks like this. (here's a photo of one of the scooters that it is a replacement part for...)
 
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Thanks for the heads up Loquin.
UPS says my motor kit will be here within about 14 hours....tick tock...tick tock....


You know I took the pictures of the 2 rectifiers (the one I bought and the one you showed me) and blew them up and as near as I can tell, they appear to be absolutely physically identical (on the outside anyways, can't tell the scale though obviously).

The website I purchased from actually sells the Mitsu clones, and they appear to sell every accessory for every motor they sell. Anyhow on their "Rectifiers" page, my rectifier is only one of 2 featured that look anything like the one you showed me (they both look identical to it, in fact. They both just say "Commonly used on 50cc to 150cc 4 Stroke Engines").

Should there be any input/output difference between a 12v 4 stroke rectifier and a 12v 2 stroke rectifier?

I guess I can just be patient and call their customer service to see if I should order the other rectifier...
 
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