staton-inc engine

Discussion in 'Motorized Trikes' started by jawnn, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. jawnn

    jawnn Member

    I can't find the staton in engine. how much does it cost and does it have a cvt?

    I am thinking to use it backwards on my usx trike. so that it sits forword of the axil.
     

  2. biken stins

    biken stins Member

    did you try vendors ?
     
  3. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    Hi jawnn,

    Your head still up in the air, yeap you opened a can of worms and you didn't even now it, but the fun part when its all said and done you will have a recumbent that is going to be so much fun to ride !!!

    Now seriously, stop opening new threads, its easier for fellow members to keep track of your progress if you just keep posting and asking all your questions in one place that way everyone who helping you out can keep an eye on you......

    I can't find the staton in engine. how much does it cost and does it have a cvt?

    http://staton-inc.com/

    link to main staton site

    http://www.staton-inc.com/Results1.asp?Category=14&offset=0

    link to various trike applications

    Questions

    does it have a cvt? NO staton builds his own gearbox's, pretty impressive lifetime guarantee.....(or you can buy the nuvinci hub extra)

    I am thinking to use it backwards on my usx trike

    the problem with this i don't think you would have clearance for the honda, maybe one of the two strokes Tanaka 49 or mits 43 but the noise would be VERY loud as your engine placement would be close to under the seat, clearance issues underneath would be of major concern.


    Check out this pic once again

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12024&d=1224356200

    I think keeping it behind is the best option for you, its going to be the least hassle for you to install, and their should be enough room for your storage.

    drop dave a line at his workshop have a good chat with him, he will be able to clear up any doubts you have, and will be able to anwser any questions about alternative mounting ideas etc...

    Its hard to make a commitment when you actually cant see this stuff first hand, but i will tell you this a vendor like staton produces A+ quality drives and you wont be disappointed.


    good luck...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  4. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Staton's products include the Nuvinci CVT hub, which can be configured as a motored hub on a trike. The CVT hub kit itself is around $350, and you would need a honda gsx50 gearbox kit as well. The Nuvinci approach would be expensive (the kit would set you back nearly a thousand) but, it should drive the 400 pound load you mentioned up a 14% slope, and have a top end of about 30 MPH.
     
  5. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    This IS true, don't think of it as one problem equals one new thread, but ONE bike build with twenty problems equals one thread. Later, when the seat won't fit, put it in the same thread and we will see why.

    Those kinds of postings become really informative and easy to reference.

    BUT, a 50 cc engine under the bike is going to take up a lot of room, and you MUST have to independently tie a remote gas tank to the frame somewhere behind you anyway.

    I'd keep it in Dave's design, then, if you can document the build with pix, he can make adaptations in the future.
     
  6. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Agree about tossing questions all over the place.

    In one of your other threads, asking much the same question, you did not mention that it was for installation on a trike. Another member wasted some time suggesting a happy-time engine, which just isn't going to work on a trike without a huge amount of work.

    ***************************************************
    Let's take a look at your requirements (or constraints.)

    1) has to push 400 pounds
    2) up a 14% grade

    These first two constraints limit you to the largest, heftiest 4 stroke, as you have a minimum amount of torque the drive system MUST supply in order to meet these two. And, if you assume a reasonable top end (20 - 30 MPH) it ALSO forces you to use some form of transmission/CVT to be able to increase the system gear ratio when going up hills, and reduce the system gear ratio when going downhill or on the flats.

    Then, you toss in the third constraint later, almost as an afterthought: that it must fit in the existing space behind the seat.

    The first two constraints just aren't compatible with the third constraint. Either the system is going to be big (and powerful) enough to push 400 pounds up a 14% slope, OR it will be small enough to fit in the space behind the seat. It IS NOT going to satisfy all three.

    And, unless you live with a 5 mile range, your standard electric system isn't going to match the first two constraints either. For any sort of reasonable range, the batteries you would need would take up a LOT of space (and add a lot of weight,) or be prohibitively expensive. (a thousand bucks for just the batteries, I would estimate.) For power and range, you just can't beat an internal combustion engine.

    Then, there's the other constraint, which is cost. An electric system with the power requirements you need, coupled with a reasonable 15 mile range or so, is going to be very expensive (or very, very heavy.)

    A Nuvinci System is going to be quite expensive. On the order of a thousand bucks.

    If you have the expertise to go outside the box, and use a pocket-bike CVT system with a jackshaft, you're probably looking at 500-600 dollars, plus a fair amount of time (there's no kit for this approach)

    Any other kit that's currently available will have to compromise top-end speed, and STILL probably won't be able to get the bike up the hill when you've got it loaded, without peddling (maybe strenuously.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  7. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    Thanks for showing up guys,

    Jawnn you are now in the tender hands of the experts around here feel free to ask any question, theres no such thing as a dumb question when it comes to fitting out our rigs.
     
  8. jawnn

    jawnn Member

    way too many worms comming out of this can.

    I just cant put the engine hanging off the back like they recomend. Because of the cargo box and the trailer hitch....the whole front end would pop up as soon as I get off.

    I may have to use an electric motor just to get the weight under the seat. what size watts will be equivelnt to the 49cc gas engine?

    Hub moters will not work on this trike with our steep hills. while the 14% grade is the worst cas and can be avoided the hills are not freandly.

    Is there a way to rigg a gas motor on the forword side of the rear axils????

    I also need a link t the left side axil that staton has for this trike. I cant find it and am too buzzed to even think when on the net. If you know of a way to combine the two or three threads please do.

    must I build a newe trike?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  9. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    If that is a 20inch wheel up front maybe you could consider a front mount, type deal,

    my suggestion to you at this moment is to send as much info as you can, pics lots of pics, an explanation of what you want to try, to the vendors and see what suggestions they can come up with..
     
  10. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    I'm not saying that the motor stick out the back. The current seat-back support appears to be just a rod dropped straight down. IF you rework that drop-rod for the seat, (make it an inverted 'U', for instance) you may be able to fit the motor, at least partially in the space that's there, and partially in the current space for the cargo box. Then, you could either SPLIT the existing cargo box so that it's half to the left, and half to the right, make the cargo box smaller, or shift it back about 6 inches...

    Also, take a look at Largefilipino's very recent thread in the CVT forum, re his front-wheel drive CVT trike.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  11. jawnn

    jawnn Member

    USX trike not for utility use

    this trike was not designed for real use....just over wieght rec use.

    the only way to add a gas motor to this trike and keep the large or larger box is to leingthen the frame and turn the motor around so it will be on the forward side of the rear axils. But first I need to find that left side rear axil that staton made for this trike. or go to a machine shop....


    it is looking more and more like I should build a better trike. like the leaning trike.....even if it takes years. the sure is a nice looking engine thats on the leaning trike. http://motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=19669
     
  12. loquin

    loquin Active Member

  13. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    ok jawnn, have you seen this setup its friction drive i know but it will give you an idea of the size of equipment needed on the trikes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Obsci20kc

    this is also a shot of the rear of my wifes trike delta version but the rear ends are similar,

    engine, battery pack and trailer hitch...

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12126&d=1224623803

    Yes i would agree these trikes are not really for hard core commuting just puttering around the neighborhood on short trips...

    Did you look at alaskavans trike the tadpole might be the easiest and most practicable to use for commuting and the actual tadpole came in around $1000.. new
     
  14. jawnn

    jawnn Member

    the only friction drive I would consider is a cvt, ( need to see photo), and still do not know if it will work in the rain.

    one thing I thought of last nite was, I NEED A LINK TO A MOTOR THAT HAS THE DRIVE SHAFT ON THE OPPOSIT SIDE THAn USUAL, or one that will turn in 'counter clock wise'? I want to center the engine on the frame.... and it may need to be a two stroke so it won't have to be ballanced? no oil to ballance?.... oh ya I don't know what I'm doing.... surly there must be a simple ....no not possalbe....ok ok going insane need sleep' no more coffie.


    well people tell me I should just forget gasoline and use electric, but I'm not getting much help in that relm,,,, and it may not work any how.???? so if this can o'worms continues to sour I may just give up and put a hub motor on the front and be realy po'd when its spins on wet asphalt.

    so at this point I need to a link to where I can buy the left side rear axil in this picture http://www.motoredbikes.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12126&d=1224623803 that looks like its run on electric and gasoline?


    how can this be so difficult? my brain? oh ya.... more photos to give me ideas please????
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2009
  15. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    I don't know about gas and electric on that link - all I see is the gas - a dimension edge friction drive.

    The 4 stroke engines we're talking about use less than a quart of oil, and have more torque than 2-strokes.

    the CVT isn't a friction drive. It's a chain drive.

    A gas chain drive system is going to weigh in the neighborhood of 25 pounds. It's NOT going to raise the front wheel off the ground, even if it were mounted behind the cargo box.

    Is there ANY way you could shift the pedals and seat forwards about 6 inches? That might do the trick, if you rework the seat back support (sketch below.)

    Is there any way for you to either cut the height of the cargo box in half & put the motor under it?
    Possible add a pair of panier type cargo boxes on either side of the main box... (sketch 2)

    Also, could you post some photos of the bike? It would give us a better idea of what you're dealing with.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2009
  16. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    ok jawnn,

    the rear of the wifes trike holds a friction drive over the right wheel and the batteries are for a mid mount motor connecting with the normal chain drive midway between pedals and seat.

    The left axle is the normal sproket that came with the kit.

    Have a look at aero goblins post wher he had a axle machined to his specfic needs.

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=16012
     
  17. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Staton's chain gearbox sets the engine on the right side. Its gearbox will center the engine onto the rear.

    You really NEED the NuVinci hub for this application.

    To offset the front end popping up, you can add a basket or a front engine drive...or both.

    I've got the notion that what you're asking to build is impossible, due to your constraints. :jester:

    You're asking to build what even a normal moped might not be able to accomplish.

    You need a motorcycle if you weigh 400lbs.

    How much $$ are you willing to spend on this project? Remember, the less you are capable of doing yourself, the more it costs to build.

    Are you trying to build this because your license was suspended?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2009
  18. jawnn

    jawnn Member

    electric motors

    ok I am finnished with the idea of trying to use gasoline motors.

    I have been talking to EV people and it may be very complex but it will just have to do.

    lithium ion batterys need electronic protection and I need a 48 volt one thousand watt....it may be 100 lbs or more and I will end up with a 250 lb machine, but at least I won't kill my self on the hills.

    so this is the only thing I need to tie into the rear axil? http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3247 but what is the max size of sprokets available???? and where can I get them????]

    wish the an EV expert would tell me every thing I need.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2009
  19. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    It uses standard, BMX freewheel sprockets. These sprockets range from 16T up to about 23T or so.

    Staton-inc sells them, so do most bicycle parts vendors. You can find them on EBay all the time.

    ***
    I still think that it could be done with a gas engine.
     
  20. jawnn

    jawnn Member

    axil

    The adaptor that I need is for the .785" axil that comes with the trike, so alll I need to do is buy another right side (drive side) axil and adaptor, and install them on the left side.

    I just can't under stand why people do not see that there is too much weight on the rear to add another 30 to 50 lbs hanging off the rear and still have a cargo box as big as I need.

    ....I suspect that no one here lives with out a car.....I wish I had known that I was going to need a motor on this trike....I would not have payed for it.
     
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