Staton/Subaru + Trek 1st Build

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by shiftless, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Ok guys as I posted in my intro thread, the Staton kit came in! Just for reference, it is this one:

    Staton Inside Drive Kit

    *note to self, learn how to do linked text on this forum

    Which is the inside drive gearbox mated to the 35cc Subaru EHO engine. I also ordered a heavy duty back wheel, which mounted up easily. Bear with me while I figure out how to embed photos in a post..
    The wheel, oufitted with a Schwable Marathon tire and extra-thick tube:

    Then the engine drive side, where I put several washers to shim the hub out to the right spot. I may replace the washers with a nut turned down to the right thickness.

    Then the pedal drive side has one washer and a nut which I cut pretty thin:

    This all turned out pretty good.. I still need to adjust the rear deraileur thing for smoother action, but the hub is in about the same location as the original hub, and I won't need to dish the rim over.

    Next up, the engine brackettry.. which I haven't figured out yet.. will post after dinner. :goofy:
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011

  2. mlcorson

    mlcorson Member

    I have the same engine, and inside gear drive and hub/wheel setup. You're going to love it.
  3. katoomer

    katoomer New Member

    another Staton gear box fan

    I found my chain cleared the frame best when the angle is vertical. 90 degrees from the ground level. To achieve that I had to fabricate the 4 or 5 inch spacers that go between the engine and the forward mounting bracket. I found later Staton has those already made up but they don't come with the kit.

    One of the best features you have is that freewheel. I especially like it when I roll out on big hills. You don't get that engine braking effect.
  4. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    <BURP> .. Ok that was good.. then my connection tanked.. :-/

    Anyway, I got the wheel mounted pretty good, then went on to the actual kit. Flipping the whole thing over, I figured out where the angle irons and the two long bolts probably go.

    The locations of the 4 support posts are pretty obvious. But then there's this thing, a piece of channel iron with the three bolts (??) It is not obvious where this one is supposed to mount. If anyone would like to give me the forehead-smacking clue, that would be great. :detective:
  5. mlcorson

    mlcorson Member

    That should be the frame bracket. That goes on the "seat stay tubes" of the frame, below the seat and above the caliper rear brake.
  6. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Ahaa. Thanks for the tip.. I guess the Staton example install "went custom" at that point:


    I'll try fitting it on the seat stay tubes when I'm off work. It seems like there were a couple of mount points in that vicinity, for a luggage rack or fender or something.. hmm.

    Those little brackets near the axle are also going to take a little creative cutting.. I am thinking about buying some plate steel and making just one bracket per side.. and redoing the hub spacers.. brakes.. DVD player.. hmm could take a while!
  7. mlcorson

    mlcorson Member

    I looked at your bike. It looks like that should mount below the rear brake. Pass that bolt through the hole tube support separator. I think you need to not use those long angles braces. The frame mount should support the gear box and the square 1/2" tubes should attach to the back of each side of the gear box. I hope that makes sense.
  8. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    I don't know about not using the angle irons.. but I may leave out the channel iron thing. I will fab up something that uses those fender mounts on the frame. Failing that, I could use the channel iron, but it would need a hole in it to pass the brake cable through. Actually, the channel iron needs a LOT of holes in it to get it down to 10 pounds or so :83:
  9. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Ok, so I finally got some time to work on my bike and made some progress. Yeah, I'm slow. :goofy: But the final product should be really good.

    First I redid the axle spacers, cut a nut down to the right length for the left spacer (instead of the stack of washers). BTW a 1 1/4" neoprene fender washer makes a perfect bearing cover for a Staton hub. I put one on both sides.


    Here is how I got the channel iron out of the way of the brake. The brake cable passes through the channel iron. The mount now comes on and off easily, and is much lighter. This is not the most elegant piece of work I ever did, but it should be fine. I just burnt the middle out with a plasma cutter and cleaned it up with an angle grinder.


    There won't be any lateral force, the engine will just tug on it. This is just a preliminary dry fit. There will be EPDM pond liner between the mount and frame, and I will paint the mount black.

    Next up will be the side-brackets for the support posts. The brackets that came with the kit won't work on my bike, I will have to fab up something out of plate steel. I think one bracket per side will work, I will make them a sort of triangular shape, each supporting two posts. Hopefully I will get that done tomorrow.. we shall see. :cool:
  10. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Got a little progress done today, not as much as I expected. A lot of time got wasted making 1/8" plates big enough to cut my 'Y' brackets (the axle brackets) out of. Being cheap and too far from a metal yard, I welded four pieces of the size I DID have to two big pieces...


    MY KINGDOM for a good template! :ack2:


    I think this will work. The bottom of the Y will be slotted to sit on the axle, and there'll be one bolt to hold it to the frame at the right angle.


    Rough-cut the 'Y' brackets. I will try and get them cleaned up, slotted and holes drilled this week, maybe prime-paint-finish Saturday? :-/


    I did get the upper channel iron thing padded with EPDM and sanded (big whoop) and will paint it along with the Y-brackets.
  11. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Well, it's not done by Saturday, but at least all the parts are cut out and with any luck it will be just a matter of assembly.. hoping to get this wrapped up tomorrow.. :whistling:
  12. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Ugh.. setbacks.. my geometry was a little off. Now I need to fill and redrill a few holes. Gee maybe NEXT weekend I can finish it? :veryangry:

    Anyway, here's where I'm going with the Y-brackets. You can see how there's only one dinky little screw above the axle to hold the bracket on, that's why I slotted the bottom so the bracket can be pinched behind the axle nut.

    Attached Files:

  13. zean

    zean New Member

    Excuse me mlcorson, how does your 16 tooth left hand threaded freewheel on the left side of the staton hub hold up to the power of the robin-subaru EHO35? Do you drive the system hard and have you ever had to replace the freewheel due to failure? I've never heard of any problems with the freewheel, I'm just curious. Thankyou.
  14. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Zean, hopefully I will also find out how well the Staton 16-tooth freewheel holds up to the EHO35, my guess is that it will hold up pretty well. :cool:

    All right folks, its problem and solution time :ack2:

    Problem #1. Good grief, either the motor mount holes were out of alignment when I got them, or I warped the bejabbers out of the channel iron when I used a plasma cutter to hog out the middle to make room for the brake. The result was, the front motor mount was both out of level AND skewed funny (yaw angle). Solution: Fill and redrill/grind the holes several times until I had both angles right. Kind of a PITA but I got it right.


    Problem #2. I took off for work this morning, under pedal power of course, with the Y-brackets installed. I noticed the caliper brake was rubbing... the wheel must be out of alignment. Turns out I did a poor job of radiusing the bottom of the brackets where they mate with the axle. All of the load was passing through the brackets instead of the frame dropouts. Solution: Flip the bike over and with the brackets installed, take a small grinding stone to them until it scuffs the frame paint.. that is, the brackets are exactly flush with the dropouts. Now the brackets and frame will transmit their loads equally to the axle.

  15. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Oh man, this thing is really coming together now. Once I had the lateral position of the engine figured out, I made some spacers out of 1/2" copper pipe to keep everything centered.

    Rear spacer:

    Front spacers:

    And one of those Y-brackets I'm so proud of :rolleyes7:

    So now all I have to do is hook up the chain and throttle. And maybe put the seat on. Society calls, but I should finally get to ride this MB tomorrow. :cool:
  16. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    It runs!

    Got the Subaru/Staton running today.. heeeheheee!


    Gearing is PLENTY short, I don't feel like the engine is lugging or I'm burning the clutch, ever. When the 11-tooth sprocket wears out (or sooner) I'll get a 12-tooth sprocket.

    I ran out of luck on the "half link" problem, and had to jack up the rear of the engine more than I like, but I think in a few weeks the chain will stretch enough to remove a full link.

    At that time I'll take everything apart and prime/paint all the custom parts. Other boring little details remain, like rerouting the throttle cable, chasing down a couple of rattles and hooking up a proper kill switch.

    THAT'S ALL, FOLKS! :party:
  17. katoomer

    katoomer New Member

    Yes, On mine I had one very noteable rattle. It ended up being the motor jumps up a little when you hit a bump. Gravity and some friction hold it down. So I just streched a strong bungee cord over the gear box to hold it downward. I know you are very good craftsman and I'd be interested to hear if you have this same little rattle and how you deal with it.
  18. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    Thanks katoomer, I'll look for that as a possible cause. Just looking at it, I noticed that any jolt that makes the engine hop up will jerk the chain tight.. not good.

    I think the problem is mainly with the rear adjusters, because the front ones are more or less held in place by the channel iron. There's almost nothing to keep the rear ones down, and I think with a big enough bump, loose chain, and the adjustment near the end of its travel, one of those suckers could jump out of its post.

    So maybe it would be better to have threaded rods solidly welded into the rear support posts, and the rods could pass through a piece of angle iron welded to the other angle irons so it replaces that long bolt across the back. Put a nut over and under the new angle iron and voila, it holds the rear end down.

    A quicker/dirtier fix might be to just put some tool-dip on the threaded adjusters so they don't slide so easily in the support posts.

    I have a sneaking suspicion at least one rattle is from the copper pipes on the mount bolts.. plenty of slop there to rubberize or fill with silicone.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  19. mlcorson

    mlcorson Member

    Looking at your picture, it seems to me you could take out a few links to shorten the chain and you'd have less threaded rod exposed (on the rear) when you tightened up the chain. The threaded rod so far up/out might be a weak spot and would be stronger if it were lower within the support square tube. I hope that makes sense. Just trying to help. I have the same model, but I had to fabricate a mount for the inside drive. I mounted the motor and gear box as low and as close to the tire and frame/seat as I could get. Enjoy your new ride.
  20. shiftless

    shiftless New Member

    That makes perfect sense, Mike. I was surprised to see that it took that much raising up. It would take far less raising of the front adjusters, because the sprocket is so far forward. But I'd have to cut stuff off the frame to lower the channel iron thing, so I'm stuck with the rear adjustment only. Once the chain stretches just a hair, I can remove one link (two rollers) and that will drop the rear end all the way down. I am going to make that happen pretty soon, because I don't like the adjusters jacked up like that.

    If the engine is indeed hopping, that should stretch out the chain for me in no time. :rolleyes7: I thought of another solution for that, and it won't require as much welding as the other idea.. more later :beta1: