Steam Bike?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by KilroyCD, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member


  2. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    I rather like that. I've daydreamed about making a 1/2 scale two cylinder Stanley Steamer type direct drive engine - mount it on a stretched Delta trike with the engine mass below CG, boiler above, use a bottled gas fuel such as propane. Don't see why it won't work, and the Stanley engine design is about as simple as it can be. Modern flash boilers can be very fast, and surprisingly small, for a reasonable steam production capability. If you want to get into recirculating the steam through a condenser, you then begin to see some significant masses.

    Stirling cycle engines might be better.
     
  3. JemmaUK

    JemmaUK Guest

    There is at least one US bike on the road and also one in the UK with a front fork mounted boiler and single cylinder engine, built by a guy called hudspith.

    Apt that he uses the Orange mobile phone logo on the tank panel - their customer support is steam powered too

    Jemma xx
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2008
  4. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I'd rather not have a pressurized steam vessel in between my legs (or anywhere near me), thank you very much!

    It's bad enough to have a couple of litres of a highly flammable liquid, along with a reciprocating assembly turning 5000+ RPM to deal with. :)
     
  5. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Yes, a repetitive series of "controlled" fuel/air explosions, contained within an apparatus that was designed to be as low cost and minimalist material as it could reasonably be made, then reverse-engineered by people who value human life rather markedly less than you likely do, and made with esentially no regard for quality or strength of materials.

    I'd take the steam engine, built by a caring and concernd craftsman, any day. Any day at all.
     
  6. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I'm sure that these folks felt exactly the same way.

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/33220_fair30.shtml
     
  7. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Complicated,heavy,expensive and very dangerous,should not be allowed on the road.Suitable for terrorists !.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2008
  8. BSA

    BSA Guest

    A. thats your opinion
    B. just cos some people know how to have fun!
    The stuff I do in my backyard would probably give you a heart attack, ya health and safety obsessed lightweight.

    BSA
     
  9. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    As long as you stick to your backyard with this time bomb fine, do your thing,just have a good safety valve.To be safety conscious instead of being stupidly reckless has it's uses:it keeps you alive longer or out of a wheel chair.I am not safety obsessed, someone who has survived riding motorcycles for 50 years has developed some smarts that keep you from pushing up daisies prematurely. These steam bikes are dangerous abominations and don't belong on public roads.One thing I forgot to mention they are quite inefficient too.
     
  10. JemmaUK

    JemmaUK Guest

    Properly built they are no less safe than a IC engine - and with the right setup are more efficient than such engines. The problem comes when someone cobbles a scratchbuild together from odd components

    Jemma xx
     
  11. People lets get real, the day when a steem train would explode becas the Engeiner wasnt watching the pressure gauge.are long gone. Almost every coel, natural gas , and nukler power plants are steem generating plants. the first generation of comercial solar power plants were also steeme plants. Steem is no more dangerous than ic engines, or electric vehicles. lets not forget that the most comon battery for transport, is the lead acid battery. both the main components of whitch are very toxic, and when it is charged it vents selfer, when in use it vents hidrogen. both of whitch are dangerous.
    So what was that about a presure vessal between your legs, gee where ar many battery packs located en electric bikes.
     
  12. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Properly built,there is the rub !,anything can be made safe in principle if you have the requisite expertise,and are willing to spend a lot of money to design and build the necessary protective devices.Could be a nice time consuming hobby for steam affacionados.I would be extremely reluctant to see steam powered homebrew bicycles on the road.an open fire,and water at high temperature ready to flash into tissue annihilating 350F plus steam if an accident were to occur.
    A simple non-compound steam engine without condensor operating at 350 F and a steam pressure of 130 psi,has a theoretical efficiency of 10-15 % (lower for smaller ones.).Large sophisticated steam plants can attain at best 40% efficiency by operating at 1000 psi. and 1000F
    With a combined gas turbine/steam turbine cycle efficiencies of around 45% are possible.The efficiencies of small IC engines are comparable with simple steam engines but with a lot less system complexity, are without the water supply problems and are far safer.Small turbo-diesels would out perform all other types ,steam or gas.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2008
  13. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Greenevegiebeest,I have worked in steam generating station instrumentation.The comparison of a sophisticated highly automated high-tech powerplant bristling with safety systems and somebody's homebrew steamcycle as far as safety features are concerned is LUDICROUS.By the way there are few steam locos around and for good reasons. They are fairly safe in normal use provided you keep an eye on the watergauge.But if you have a collision with all that very hot water around flashing into steam, it's a very different story.If you feel like putting a 350F boiler between your legs go right ahead.
    Your notion that lead acid batteries are a menace because sulphuric acid & lead are toxic is silly,do you propose to have one for lunch? As to the venting I surmise your "selfer" denotes sulphur,it cannot be vented, it happens to be a SOLID.Nothing is being vented when a battery is being discharged,the only time any venting can occur is at the end of the charge cycle when a small amount of oxigen and hydrogen may be generated.This is not a problem unless the battery is in a closed box, without any ventilation.
     
  14. excuse me have you ever smelled a bad battery????? I work in the auto industry. I work with batterys everyday. Have you ever seen a battery explosion, I have . Yess batterys do vent in all cycles. the acid and the plates cycle though difrent states based on the charg cycle. and as for the lead it can be absorbed through the skin acording to the msds sheets i have read.
     
  15. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    What's the relevance of a bad battery ?,have you smelled a burned up sofa ?,just because you happen to work in the battery industry does not mean that you are in the know about what goes on inside a leadacid battery when it is being charged or discharged.Go to a book on batteries that takes you through the chemical changes that occur and you would learn that during discharge water is produced (this is why the specific gravity decreases) but NO gases are vented.During charge sulphuric acid is produced and ultimately some water can be dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen (this occurs after the battery is fully charged).Batteries can explode if you are stupid enough to put a dead short the output and lead is a neurotoxin,but with it eliminated now from the gas, it is not much of an environmental threat anymore.If you work in a battery plant,blood lead levels ought to be monitored. OHSA is supposed to enforce safe practices. But very few people work there and in normal use lead acid batteries are quite safe if properly fused.Few things are completely safe,but some are safer than others.Cadmium is a heavy metal toxin also.But getting back to my original statement,homebrew steam cycles are likely to be a lot more dangerous than the ones with IC engines,because of all the protective features required for safe operation,and no guarantee that the design is adequate.
     
  16. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    BSA,if you want to have what you term "fun" in your back yard,go to it,won't bother me at all.I'm not your keeper.You might learn something from it, or end up in that wheelchair with most of your life ahead of you.The prefrontal cortex does not mature until around year 20 or even later. It's what you perpetrate on the public streets that is of concern to other road users.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2008
  17. Oviously YOU have little real world experence and loots of book lernin. Us rednecks jus know what wees sees an hears. BTW IM ASE cestified automotive technician, and perts specilist. I do have a degree in automotive tech. so whatch what books you Quote. I may have already read them and rent the aurthors some corections.

    That rotten egg smell that comes off battreys is sulpher. the rev to bad batteryes, is that it is most comonly assocated to "Sulphated" batterys. Which is one of the formal terms for what Us rednecks call a bad battery.
    :cool:
     
  18. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    I have over 50 years of PRACTICAL engineering experience,a lot of what you "sees an hears" is drivel.The smell is from lead sulphate (PbSO4) I am acquainted with the compound
    Some good advice:To make yourself a bit better understood,get a spell checker,it would be a real help,there were over 20 spelling errors in you latest post.
     
  19. Ok SIR could you explain to me the components it "Sulphate" I do Beleve That is a compound made of Sulper(s) Lead(Pb) and Oxigen(O), No I cannot spell. Im a technical person. aske me how to build somthing, hew to take somthing apart, or how to repair somthing that is my area. Not Gramer. I barly got past My required composition courses some 20 years ago, and have forgoten what I lerned. But It has become painfully Obfois that you have not . but do me a favor and Dont try to confuse the people in the thread with ur book lernen. we all know u is smart. /COLOR]
     
  20. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    The days when steam trains would explode are long gone since we've engineered better solutions. (diesel, electric)

    Modern power plants do use steam driven turbines, but these are stationary applications (not on a car, bike or train) that have sophisticated monitoring equipment, fail safes and a lot of people working to monitor things. Even with all that - fatal accidents occur: http://www.wickedlocal.com/salem/archive/x481178156

    A steam engine in a bicycle would be much more dangerous than a IC engine, especially in an accident where the tank gets ruptured. The resulting water flashing to steam would instantly cook you. A steam engine powered bike makes a nice curiosity, but it is not practical as transportation. I built a small steam engine from a kit, and it drives a small generator which produces enough power to light a three watt light bulb. It is a great conversation piece, and I love the "chuff chuff chuff" sound, but I'm glad that the IC engine is the dominant source of power for our vehicles.
     
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