The bike shops are missing a good bet..

[bluegoatwoods]

Yup, the liability issue is obvious now that I think about it.

In fact, it's occurred to me before. People have said, "You could make a business out of this. Build 'em and sell 'em." And then I'd picture some guy killing himself on a bike I built and his wife suing me for a half million bucks. (And it's hard to blame her, really. She's lost her bread-winner) And while I could never pay it, owing it would be a tragedy.

And profit margins are another thing that outsiders have trouble perceiving. I remember my machinist's wife once remarking to me, "People are outraged that we charge $35.00 to turn a brake rotor. But they don't know how much these machines cost!"

 

[Rain City]

I wouldn't feel right selling a complete MB to someone, knowing how tinker-intensive it is. BUT I feel like after a MB has been worn in, a tank or two, it really shouldn't require much tinkering. From my own experience though, tinkering can be dangerous - aka - my stupid *** not tightening the roller from the tensioner enough and watching the thing literally fall apart - luckily I was watching and was able to stop without wiping out or anything.

Plus on the other end of it, unless a shop sold MBs that were 100% street legal, I think that once a few of them hit the road - it would eventually come back to you in some way or another.

I would hate nothing more than building a motor for someone and then having something happen that involved the bike suddenly stopping (at 25 mph) or yeah who knows what. Scary thought...

 

[pedalpower]

unless major brands like Trek, Lemond, Gary Fischer, Specialzed etc. start coming out with at least electric assist (out of the box) models I don't see LBSs selling anything but pedalpower. One of my favorite movies is Seabiscuit when the bicycle store owner has a new "horseless carriage" all spread out on the shop floor and then moves into the car business. Who knows what our economy has in store-perhaps bike stores will move into the small engine market-it all depends on what people want and what is legal.

 

[Large Filipino]

MB's will never become that popular. Okay. Vendors can't hold on to their engine kits. Supply is exceeding demand more than ever these days.
Let me say this differently.
I HOPE the MB's will not get that popular.
Why?
Because this is our little secret.
The rest can get scooters and motorcycles.
Motorcycle shops have been selling these MB's for decades.
You can order a Whizzer at your local Harley Davidson dealer.
Chances are good they won't stock them for they don't sell as well as their motorcycles.
But they're out there.
We ride MB's in every configuration.
Neighbors see us everyday.
They SAY they want one.
No insurance.
No Registration.
No taxes.
And yet they continue with their cars.
Why?
Because to them it's just a little DREAM.
To some of us this is a WAY OF LIFE.
To others it's strictly for recreation,nothing more.
And most of us wonder why motorize a bicycle when you can get a motorcycle.
Most of us think that motorizing a bicycle is something a kid would do.
It's good that they don't know.
It's good that they don't know that,
We are the kids doing it.

 

[GTscoob]

I think if somebody can come up with a solid kit that does not require too much tinkering it should sell like hotcakes. Make the MB like a utility, when you buy a lawnmower you dont expect to have to tighten bolts and work on the motor every other time you take it out; at most you expect that some days it wont start and you just have to set the choke to crank it up. When motorized bikes reach that level of reliability then average joes will buy them.

Most people will not spend money on something that requires constant tinkering, but if you're into modifying you can personalize your bike's appearance and performance to your heart's content on an MB and much easier and cheaper than on a motorcycle or car.

Another option would be to sell the motor packages with an additional labor/warranty package where you pay another $100 or so but that covers all adjustments needed. Exactly like car companies paying for routine maintenance like fluid and belt swaps at predetermined intervals. I'd think if you could attach a timer to the crank of the motor and just set up maintenance intervals with hours ridden that would help make them more accessible.

Maybe its an age thing like you say but most of my friends have cars and bicycles but they're all extremely interested in the gas savings from riding an MB. Some worry about the environmental impact of a 2stroke motor but that can be remedied with cats. I guess like Large Fillipino said, for some people its a lifestyle, but for us its just fun fairweather transportation. I cant wait to build mine as I'm sure I'll make several converts out of the neighborhood college kids as well as my friends older and younger.

 

[Bigwheel]

There is one big name manufacturer, Schwinn (http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/intbikes_category.php?id=110) that is active in the motor assist market although only electric. I know of at least one other namebrand manufacturer that is looking in to motor assist and they are interested in electric only also.

As far as the average bike shop getting involved with motorized bikes I believe that there are more than we know about but still not that many. I have seen a few waves form in the bike industry and I feel that the MB one is just getting underway. As usual the garage mechanics will lead the way and get the ball (wheels?) rolling and when it looks like there will be a decent ROI the larger companies will come along for the ride. Of course the laws of the land will interfere also which may not be as bad as we think? One can always hope.

But the biggest issue is the reliability one. The HT motors are great and many are happy with them but because they are labor intensive not that many folks will be able to work with them. Also the 2 stroke engine in this country is dying a slow death due to the EPA and CARB requirements. Luckily the 4 stroke technology is coming along nicely and is ready to fill in the gap with a clean running and arguably more reliable engine. The fact that it is not as slim as the HT is a real problem however in retrofitting it into stock framesets. But the future of gas MB lies in the 4 stroke if I see it right. You can't tell me that if a company like Honda set their mind to it they couldn't make a narrower engine.

Electric is really the way to go for most peoples needs though. For commuting up to 20 miles to work or running errands for people in populated areas they can do the job well enough. Battery technology that is kicking back from the high tech industry will hopefully bring the cost of the best ones down here in the near future and hub motors are plentiful. Hopefully the AC one that Birkestrand sold to Sanyo will get out of Japan someday also. Or perhaps someone will develop an engine like recumpences that is powerful, compact and lightweight?

I have run both systems and they each have merits over the other. I do feel that the holy grail for myself is a hybrid system that several on here have come close to. Have a bike setup with an electric motor and enough battery to have at least a 40 mile range and have a trailer setup with a 4 cycle generator that you can hook up for longer distance and carry the necessary gear to boot.

So don't worry about the bikeshops or the bike industry too much. They are notoriously slow to change and so be it. They already supply much of what is needed to make a decent MB without even knowing about it and that is a good thing. In the meantime enjoy the ride!

 

[Skyliner70cc]

From my perspective, it comes down to liability and profit margin.

In order to make the HT engine somewhat reliable, it takes me a total of 10-12 hours to do an install on a bike. This includes pulling the engine apart to JB weld the studs, checking out other things, and replacing all hardware with US stuff.

Another issue is that things change with usage and a newly bike should be driven 50 miles before being sold to address clutch adjustments, chain stretch, and a host of other stuff that often creeps up on a new ride. Most buyers don't want a "used" ride but want a new one with 0 miles on it.

Let's not forget the way the sprocket is mounted to the rear tire. Not an ideal setup and should be regularly checked for loose bolts, bent/broken sprockets etc..

Just adding one of those clamshell adaptors from lifefast motors adds signifcant cost to a bike which most buyers don't want to pay.

I'm pretty much done selling MB's on craigslist. I was selling new (older style) skyliners and searchers with HT engines (with all of the mods I mentioned in a newbie build post) for $600.00 I have about 450 dollars in parts for each build and a 150 dollar profit isn't worth it anymore. I don't mind putting the miles on each ride to work the bugs out either but like I said, customers want a brand new MB and don't understand that a new and unridden bike is asking for trouble and a lawsuit.

In order to make it worth it to sell these, I'd need 900-1000 per complete bike. Even though gas is 4 bucks/gallon, the economy is in the tanks and people nowadays don't even have the 600 bucks anymore to buy my cheaper priced builds.

I won't even go into liability and warranty of product. Folks think they can drop their bikes, shear engine mounts, and destroy an engine case and expect it to be covered under a warranty that I never provided.

 

[strainjpnt]

it seems weird but i see people selling 75 dollar cruisers with HT motors on them for around 800 dollars and there actually selling the guy has sold 4 in the last month i also saw a guy selling his occ stingray with a motor for 900

 

[Eco Speeder]

Power assisted bikes

....Why not sell these motors and accessories?
....

Tis true. That is an untapped gold mine market that few have the cojunes to jump on so far. Alot it Pedalheads see the motorized bike as an obnoxious piece of devil craft. Except when we are going up a steep hill at the same time, pedaling equally as hard. As I blaze past.

Pedalpower brought up some goods points though. But given that, why does our respective cities not have like 10 electric bicycle shops? Plus I'm sure electric bike motors would be easier accepted by the pedalheads. My take on their disdain is that that they see the motor as taking over the bike and turning it into a scooter. Once they start realizing that you still get your same biking experience but at turbo speeds they'll come around.

As far as motorized bicycle technology, gas or electric, we have not even scratched the surface yet. For instance; 3 and 4 wheeled motorized bikes that lean with independent suspension and disk brakes.

26cc - 49cc water cooled gas motors that have EFI (electronic fuel injection) and and a wee tiny CVT(constant velocity transmission) drive.

Right now new Electric bike technology is far out pacing the gas motors. Some of the electric kits like Bionix have some really smart and high tech features in the motor control computer firmware. But they also have unrealized advancements staring at them. Like a two wheel drive electric bike motor system for instance. Or a two or four wheel drive electric quadracycle / autocycle.

If the Govt. was not so in bed with the oil industry, we would be moving forward with hydrogen power. We could be making hydrogen from growing weed like plants that require little farming effort. Unlike putting a cost intensive food plant like corn in our gas tanks. One could make a bicycle-like hydrogen vehicle as big or fast as you want because hydrogen weighs much less than batteries. And hydrogen vehicles have wicked torque and weight savings as they are electric drive. And the emissions are purified water.

 

[loquin]

While hydrogen is light, the storage tanks for it are very heavy.

hydrogen vehicles are electric drive??? Unless they're based on fuel cells, the ones I've seen are internal combustion engines.

The reliability issue could go away if reliable engines and kits are used. Honda or R/S engines are VERY reliable, as are Staton & GEBE kits.