Too many questions to start my project...

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by grndslm, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    I think I'm most interested in a 4-stroke frame-mounted engine, but I'm not the best when it comes to mechanics, which is why I'm here for advice:

    (1) What are some good brands? Only thing I've seen is thatsdax.com and a kit on ebay that looked almost identical to dax kits but with a different fuel tank.

    (2) How practical is it to pedal at various speeds? I assume I'm just gonna be hitting the gas all the time until I'm out and am forced to start pedalling?

    (3) How hard is it to pedal when I do run outta gas?

    (4) The bicycle gears prolly won't help me that much, but is there some kinda gearbox or something that will help me out when using the engine only? I've only seen one post about gears outta the tons of threads I've sifted thru...

    (5) If properly built on a brand new Gary Fischer bike, for example (using leather inside the mount brackets, using loctite on quality bolts, taking your time, etc.)... will there still be vibration, rattling?

    (6) Are there any advantages to a 2 stroke engine? I saw some people say they have greater power, but it appeared to me that these people were referring to the torque of their engines... which a 4 stroke would have more of, right? Anyway... why would I want a 2 stroke.. just for size & looks??

    (7) Have any of you burnt your ankles on the exhaust? Seems kinda close to your ankle, and I'm sure I'll mostly be wearing pants.... but just curious.

    (8) How far can you usually ride on one tank of gas (with or without pedalling)?

    (9) What type of HP & top speed should I be seeing with a 4 stroke engine (50cc & 70cc)?

    (10) Any other tips or products I should be aware of?
     

  2. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    >>>I think I'm most interested in a 4-stroke frame-mounted engine, but I'm not the best when it comes to mechanics, which is why I'm here for advice:

    If you have very little experience (as in, you dont or cant even change oil in your car) get a buddy to help you with this install. You're going to come across things that are too small to be on this forum and only a pal next to you can sort out of you're inexperienced. Better yet if you dont want to deal with the hassle check out spooky tooth. If I wanted to buy a mostly assembled bike I would be ordering from them. Very good prices for pre-built bikes and their reviews have been fantastic.

    >>>(1) What are some good brands? Only thing I've seen is thatsdax.com and a kit on ebay that looked almost identical to dax kits but with a different fuel tank.

    Personally I'd rather order from an actual website thats established and well reviewed rather than ebay any day. These things may look the same but different buyers buy based on quality or price from china. I've heard dax is good to deal with and I'd trust him to back up his product far longer than an ebay seller once you give them positive feedback. Better even he posts on these boards and seems very into what he does as a motoredbiker.

    >>>(2) How practical is it to pedal at various speeds? I assume I'm just gonna be hitting the gas all the time until I'm out and am forced to start pedalling?

    Pedaling while accelerating especially from a dead stop is a really good idea. It saves wear and tear on the bike and engine as well as making you accelerate at a surprisingly fast speed.

    >>>(3) How hard is it to pedal when I do run outta gas?

    Theres a fair amount of drag at least on the 2stroker I have. It can be done and its way better than walking the bike but there is a noticeable drag on the bike. Like lightly holding one of the breaks while pedaling. A multi-speed bike would be a good idea if this is a concern.

    >>>(4) The bicycle gears prolly won't help me that much, but is there some kinda gearbox or something that will help me out when using the engine only? I've only seen one post about gears outta the tons of threads I've sifted thru...

    On the Chinese kits you dont have many options at this time unless you want to do something totally custom. Nothing in kit form that I've seen so far.

    >>>(5) If properly built on a brand new Gary Fischer bike, for example (using leather inside the mount brackets, using loctite on quality bolts, taking your time, etc.)... will there still be vibration, rattling?

    You're going to get vibration no matter what you do, It's just part of the game. If you've done everything right the joy of motoredbiking will greatly overcome the vibes you have to deal with. If your bike has heavy vibrations something is probably wrong like a motor mount bolt worked its way loose or something. Always double check, dont risk damage or injury!

    >>>(6) Are there any advantages to a 2 stroke engine? I saw some people say they have greater power, but it appeared to me that these people were referring to the torque of their engines... which a 4 stroke would have more of, right? Anyway... why would I want a 2 stroke.. just for size & looks??

    No oil changes except for everytime you fill the tank with more premix. It's really not a hassle unless you plan on gassing up the bike directly at a filling station. 2 strokes have more power per cc but the power band is narrow usually lacking in low end torque but much more power at mid-high revs. 2 strokes are more compact and look better. Depending on the bike you'll have to modify or change out your pedal cranks to fit the wider 4 stroke kit mid-frame.

    >>>(7) Have any of you burnt your ankles on the exhaust? Seems kinda close to your ankle, and I'm sure I'll mostly be wearing pants.... but just curious.

    I've burnt my leg on the long pipe of my chopper bike. Pants are good to avoid about a thousand different injuries while riding any bike, let alone a motored one.

    >>>(8) How far can you usually ride on one tank of gas (with or without pedalling)?

    without pedaling I'd say at least 60 miles... and I live where its really hilly. I think most people report 150+ with both the 2 and 4 stroke kits. I've never tested mileage all pedal assist vs no pedal assist. I'm always in between.

    >>>(9) What type of HP & top speed should I be seeing with a 4 stroke engine (50cc & 70cc)?

    I've had no personal experience but I've seen many reports of 35+mph stock. They sound like they have tons of power, far more than enough for a bicycle.

    >>>(10) Any other tips or products I should be aware of?

    I'd say immediately buy a heavy duty rear wheel to attach the engine drive gear, 10-12g spokes are a must for these things in my experience. A double walled rim would be good too but not totally necessary. Get the best tubes and tires you can find. Heavier the better because flats STINK! I'd recommend at least battery powered LED lighting at all times to be seen by motorists. Have seen and heard way too many bad stories about people getting run over because cagers cant see or are too preoccupied with the gadgets in their cars to see a cyclist. Carry a toolkit at all times, nothing worse than having a simple repair that you have to walk the bike back miles to do :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2008
  3. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    Yea, I would prolly buy from Spooky Tooth, but I was really looking for a 4 stroke engine. I was under the impression that all of dax's motors were 4 stroke, but I guess not. It just says that the 4 stroke is coming soon, and it's not even frame mounted.

    Do any frame mounted 4 stroke kits exist? Esp. from any pre-built site like Spooky Tooth??

    I'm starting to think I should say to **** with these Chinese engines and just get a GXH50 or some other Honda 4 stroke...

    Yea, I really just meant rattling. I understand that vibration is necessary with any motor.. but I had read lots of people who first built theirs, prolly just too quickly tho.

    Anyway, thanks a bunch for your help SirJakesus!
     
  4. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    Bicycle-engines.com has a 4-stroke kit available probably similar to the one you saw on ebay. I dont know if I've ever seen a frame mounted GXH50 before but I think they're generally the same size as the chinese 4 strokers. If it helps at all I haven't seen near as many complaints of problems with the chinese 4 strokes as I have of the 2 strokes. Could just be because they're not common yet or maybe they are that much better. The price difference would definitely indicate that they are of much better quality. Good luck on your quest man!
     
  5. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    I understand your enthusiasm but please take time to READ as much as possible of previous threads FIRST....promise it'll be worth it,you'll be asking fewer and more relevant questions.
     
  6. Scottm

    Scottm Guest

    Almost sound like you're looking for a Whizzer. These 2 strokes are a lot of fun, but I would like to get my hands on a 4 stroke sometime.
     
  7. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    Look hombre, I have read for days. I have done some limited searching, but (not to my surprise) there isn't any thread remotely titled: "The Best 4-Stroke Frame-Mounted Engine!"

    I haven't read anything about how oddly positioned the exhaust is on frame-mounted engines, and it's difficult to determine how far each part comes off a bicycle. I can't see from a 2D pic whether I'll still be able to pedal with a 4 stroker mounted on the frame... or if I'll burn myself.

    There's a thread on top speed & hp, but it doesn't ask you to specify between 2 & 4 stroke engines.

    And people also post their mileage, but are unwilling to post how often they pedal, if ever.

    So reading previous threads, that mostly mention 2 strokers, isn't going to help me out one bit with the questions I asked. Thanks for clogging up this forum even more, tho!
     
  8. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    That site actually has a 360deg video where a guy walks around the bike. It's not the greatest, but it looks to me like it'd be very hard to pedal with a frame-mounted 4-stroke.

    Starting to think that a rack-mounted 4-stroke would be a lot more practical.

    The Whizzer is pretty friggin' sweet. My problems with the Whizzer are the steep price, it's belt-driven (why not use a chain?), and I think that motor might be too big for me, especially if I'm trying to keep it legal for the local po-po's.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2008
  9. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    grndslm:
    I'm not your hombre but i do know the answers to your questions.Unfortunately Mr Junior Member i can see your keen to do things the hard way so i'll leave ya to it. :rolleyes:
     
  10. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    OK, you may not be my brother, but you're definitely one of my cousins stemming from that same unicellular organism millions of years ago...

    And if you think asking questions to get a clue of what you wanna build is "hard"... try building your next dream without the help of a forum, Mr Senior Member. You'll prolly end up reading to your death.
     
  11. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    As much as I'd really like a frame-mounted engine... I think I'm gonna have to go with a rack-mounted one instead.

    That way I can get a 4-stroke and pretty much put it on any bike in existence: beach cruiser, 20" bmx, trike, recumbent, recumbent trike, etc...

    I think I'll decide on my frame first and then come back here when I've got most all my parts pieced out.

    Thanks again everybody (other than fetor56, who sure knows how to waste time in style)!!
     
  12. kerf

    kerf Guest

    The frame mounted engines are very nice but rack mounting does resolve certain issues. As long as you're considering a rack mount, check out Golden Eagle, Staton and the import units. There is bound to be something that suits your taste.
     
  13. RATRODER

    RATRODER Guest

    And if you think asking questions to get a clue of what you wanna build is "hard"... try building your next dream without the help of a forum, Mr Senior Member. You'll prolly end up reading to your death.[/QUOTE]

    I have built without the help of a forum.. If you go to the Picture Gallery,find all 4 stroke frame mount builds and ask your questions there you might get answers. Fetor was trying to HELP!
     
  14. grndslm

    grndslm Guest

    I'm not saying it can't be done... but I am saying that every newb will benefit from asking questions to point them in the right direction.
    Now that is a helpful suggestion.
    Trying to help and helping are two different things. He could have answered one or two of my questions, or ignored the thread altogether; do or do not, there is no try! But no.. he had to tell me to read, like I haven't already done that. There's always a Fetor in every forum who can't bother to lend a hand other than telling you that you can find it yourself. If I could have found it myself, Fetor... I wouldn't be here asking for your opinion!!
     
  15. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest


    http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=7206&highlight=houghmade

    Now you have- same kit as that site.

    Yes, you can pedal. And it's pretty hard to burn your leg.
     
  16. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    I, for one, find your replies to fetor aggressive
    if, you had read, read, read... like he suggested,(as I do to most newbies), you would have known about the 4strokers that are here
    I don't particularly like the looks of the rack-mounts, but, I still read the posts for tips I CAN use
    you might have read a lot, but not enough to answer your questions
    read on !!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  17. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    How do i know what u know and what u don't know...all i know u were asking the type of questions that shouldn't have been asked IF u hade done your homework.
    Instead of asking a few important questions then getting the proper answers and moving onwards with other questions u bombard ppl by not giving them time to breathe....this isn't a race.
    Your enthusiasm is heartning but your attitude disheartning.Instead of arguing with ppl try cooperating...you'll get more work done and it'll be productive work.
     
  18. srdavo

    srdavo Active Member

    I agree!!

    here's a tip....MBc has rules.
    Read them.


    one more tip.... Play nice, or google yourself on down the www.
     
  19. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i thought it was a good idea to group all your questions together, believe me i appreciate that...matter of fact, keep replying to this topic as you learn the answers, crosslink to the topic that did it for you whenever applicable...journal your build for the next new member :)

    the guys are trying to help..."read read read" is the mbc-mantra, but when something comes up that hasn't been covered, we want the question posted. all a misunderstanding, "play nice" is the best response i've seen so far. "slow down" was also good ;)

    imo, rack-mount makes for a much more reliable vehicle, i can personally vouch for the golden eagle system (epa-compliant tanaka 2-stroke) and the not-yet-released dax-titan (chinese 4-stroke honda clone)...they may not look as slick (also a matter of opinion) but boy-o-boy are they fun to run :cool:
     
  20. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Also, generally rack mounts incorporate a freewheel on the left side sprocket which facilitates pedalling when the engine is not running.
     
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