Tucson Police Department Harassment

[Exarach]

I had a UoA (In Tucson) Officer on a motorcycle today catch me missing a stop sign. My own fault, I saw it late, and stopped about 5 feet over the line. All he did was wave me over, and tell me to stop at the sign next time I came through, he even complemented me on my "Cool Bike"

So far this is the only interaction I have had with any police forces in Tucson, and hopefully, my experiences will be limited to such pleasant encounters.

However I will say, back when I used to ride on manpower alone, I would often see motorized bicycles, and many of them were racing along at speeds that were clearly over the 19mph. If I was going 15, and they were flying past me....

Anyhow, I would encourage anyone in Tucson to enjoy your riding experience, but to keep it safe and easy, keep those regs in mind. Perhaps then we can have a better MB environment for everyone.

Also, to anyone who was caught riding in this freak Tucson rain/hail storm we had today, I hope you made it back ok, I know it threw me for a loop, almost ate it into the curb several times.

-exr

 

[Paratrooper]

BiMoPed's inclusion of AZ law is most helpful . It seems to address the limits of motor size BUT does not address the maximum "wattage" of an electric "helper" motor . Is there a limit ? I see them selling with a power rating of 450 watts and better . A little help ???

 

[SimpleSimon]

While I agree that a power limit is helpful in some ways, I do not think it is needful.

Most of the sub-50 cc two stroke and four stroke engines used in building MB's seem to be designed to produce 1 to 2 horsepower. Since one horsepower is a nominal legal equivalent to 750 watts of electric motor power, it hardly seems that 450 watts is a real concern.

I've contemplated building a hybrid tadpole trike with a 350-500 watt hub motor in each front wheel, pedal drive through to the rear wheel, and a 1,2000 watt gas generator mounted behind the seat. Best of both worlds, really - a 2 HP four stroke running at its most efficient would drive the genny, a battery bank for smoothing and surge needs to the electric hub motors, and a really quiet bike you can pedal readily. Cost is the major stumbling block for me - LiPo batteries ain't cheap, SLA and NiCads are too heavy.

 

[sparky]

I can help you throw the book at them if you'd like.

Start by reading the U.S. Constitution, its amendments, U.S. statutes, your state constitution, its statutes, etc. Your answer lies somewhere in there; it's not hidden at all.

LAW -vs- LEGALITIES
LAW -vs- STATUTES
CONSTITUTION -vs- STATUTES
LAW -vs- THE BIBLE

Step 1) LIFE, LIBERTY, & PROPERTY... Were they violated by somebody that took an oath to protect these three things for all individuals? Was this person bonded? (I'm sure) Then collect the bond monies.

EVERYTHING comes down to property rights in this country. If a cop is confiscating (i.e. - "removing without lawful authority") your property, then he should be held liable for it.

 

[Chalo]

While I agree that a power limit is helpful in some ways, I do not think it is needful.

Most of the sub-50 cc two stroke and four stroke engines used in building MB's seem to be designed to produce 1 to 2 horsepower. Since one horsepower is a nominal legal equivalent to 750 watts of electric motor power, it hardly seems that 450 watts is a real concern.

I think the laws acknowledge that a 1hp gas motor and a 1hp electric motor are very different creatures.

Gas motors are rated according to their peak power. They produce peak torque at a speed relatively close to their peak power speed. You generally don't run a gas motor at peak power all the time, because that's hard on it and wears it out quickly.

Electric motors are rated according to the continuous power they can produce without overheating. Their peak power under load can be much higher. Electric motors typically produce their peak torque at a dead stall, so an electric bike will accelerate much more quickly than a gas bike of the same power rating.

With just the right gear ratios, an electric bike and a gas bike of the same HP rating will have the same top speed. If you gear a gas bike above or below that ratio, it will be slower. If you gear an electric bike above that ratio, it will likely become faster (but more likely to overheat the motor or overload its controller). And under any conditions other than top speed running, the electric bike will behave like a much more powerful vehicle.

The laws may also be designed to discourage people from carrying 100 lbs. of batteries to satisfy the cravings of their 2hp electric motors. That would be a safety problem for almost any bike, let alone the hokey department store cruisers that many people choose to motorize.

Chalo

 

[Paratrooper]

I guess my initial question went unnoticed . Since the law clearly addresses the 48cc threshold it seems to ignore any limits on electric assisted bikes . Bottom line : Is there a limit on wattage for electric assisted bikes ?

 

[BiMoPed]

I guess my initial question went unnoticed . Since the law clearly addresses the 48cc threshold it seems to ignore any limits on electric assisted bikes . Bottom line : Is there a limit on wattage for electric assisted bikes ?

It is not mentioned in the Statute so that means that there is no limit.
However electric bicycles are still limited to 20 mph

It also does not mention a maximum horse power for gas engines.

It is a very badly written law as it limits motors to 48 cc. It should
have said 50 cc like a lot of other states.

The Honda GX 50 ( 49 cc) and Huasheng 49 cc along with any
Morini 50 cc are all illegal in Arizona.
There was already one guy in Mesa that was cited for this.

You have heard of getting off on a technicality, but it works the
other way too......

 

[Chalo]

I guess my initial question went unnoticed . Since the law clearly addresses the 48cc threshold it seems to ignore any limits on electric assisted bikes . Bottom line : Is there a limit on wattage for electric assisted bikes ?

Many states use the 750W Consumer Product Safety Commission definition of an electric bicycle as a legal power limit. California uses a 1000W limit. Texas specifies no power limit, but does have a speed and bike weight limit.

Some states specify their speed limit as pertaining to (for instance) a "170 lb. rider on level ground", which gives enough leeway to successfully fight any modest speed ticket in court.

Chalo

 

[toolmanaz68]

One of those with impounded MB

I am one of those who was doing 25 in a 40 zone in the bike lane and was impounded and ticketed by TPD.
To take this thing a little further, AZ DMV says no license, insurance, or insurance is required for MBs, and doesnt bother to tell you about the Tucson City ordinance about the 20 mph exemption to the state law.
Furthermore, I was coasting downhill to reach the 25 mph allegation and NOT under power although the motor was on.
The city prosecutor, after reading the charges at the arraignment said, " Were you on a motorized bicycle? Dude you have to plead not guilty and fight this."
So, I did, and I am. I will keep you all advised as the proceedings move along.

 

[loquin]

B. For the purposes of this section, "motorized electric or gas powered bicycle or tricycle" means a bicycle or tricycle that is equipped with a helper motor that has a maximum piston displacement of forty-eight cubic centimeters or less, that may also be self-propelled and that is operated at speeds of less than twenty miles per hour.

It's not a Tucson 20 mph exemption. It's state-wide.

The way the law reads, here in AZ, once you've mounted a motor, the motor could be not running, and if you then exceed 20 MPH, it's possible that you could be taken to court. (Or, if they SAY you were exceeding 20 mph.)