Tucson Police Department Harassment

[cactusamigo]

Most of the responses to my post yesterday are correct, although some drag in side issues that have nothing to do with the main issue in regard to motorized bike operation.

"Reasonable and prudent" overrides posted speed limits under certain conditions, such as when storms limit visibility, etc. Many communities have an ordinance defining a maximum speed limit in residential areas where speed limit signs are not posted.

However, the main focus is on major arteries that do have speed limit signs posted. I have never driven anywhere in the US where major arteries do not have speed limit signs posted. This is where the three individuals had their bikes impounded.

The posted speed limit is 40 mph. Interesting, that in the case of one individual, the cop stopped him for "speeding", informed him so, but never issued a speeding citation. He was cited for several other infractions. Without issuing a citation for "speeding", the cop had no probable cause for issuing the other citations. I do not know the details of the citations issued to the other two individuals.

The point is the speed limit was posted as 40 mph, the individuals were stopped for doing 24-25 mph, and there were no other speed limit signs posted. It was during the day, the weather conditions were favorable, so the posted speed limit was "reasonable and prudent".

As I posted previously, the AZ motorized bike ordinance is poorly written, and is not in the form of other traffic ordinances. Some assume that one could do 20 mph, but that is not correct. Doing 20 mph would be in violation. The maximum speed for a motorized bike is LESS THAN 20 mph (19.999...mph is legal!). How could that be put on a sign?

The argument could have gone away by the Tucson City Prosecutor dropping the charges against the two individuals. However, he seems to have enough problem with the ordinance to desire to see it challanged, thus, advising the individuals to plead "Not Guilty".

 

[cactusamigo]

The intent of the AZ speed restrictions for motorized bikes has nothing to do with "reasonable and prudent" or speed related safety. Its purpose is for defining a vehicle exempt from registration and licensing requirements. Exceed the motorized bike speed limit, and you get cited for violating these requirements. In AZ, posted speed limits, and other traffic control signs, apply to ALL vehicles using the artery. Specific exemptions are posted.

 

[Stan4d]

There are no speed limit signs posted for motorized bikes. It will be very interesting to see how this issue is resolved. No speed limit signs for motorized bikes, and no speedometer requirements for motorized bikes. And the police are wasting their time with what amounts to nothing, when they have much higher priorities! Time to chop the heads of a few bureaucrats. Whoops, they do that in Mexico!

Hey, Super Moderator - Speed limits MUST be posted in order to be enforced. What do you think speed limit signs are for?

Most of the responses to my post yesterday are correct, although some drag in side issues that have nothing to do with the main issue in regard to motorized bike operation.

Just wondering.....you do realize it was you that caused that side track don't you?
Have you searched this site before starting this thread?
Have you read the news articles here? http://www.spookytoothcycles.com/spooky-in-the-press/news-archive
Are you aware that starting your case with accusations of harassment may do more damage to the cause than you intend?
Just asking to make you really think about what you may cause.

 

[Stan4d]

Also, I realize that you may not be able to edit it now, but do you want me to correct the spelling in the title of the thread?

 

[cactusamigo]

Stan -

Sorry if I caused the side track. I wasn't aware that I did.

No, I didn't search the site before starting this thread. I posted what I thought to be new information, since the incidences had just occurred.

I took the individuals at their word. Their stories were independently consistent, and I believe the term "harassment" is appropriate. I feel that police confiscation of private property over such a small issue is a form of police harassment of a specific class of individuals. Others may feel differently. What is especially unfair and unreasonable is that the recovery costs of the confiscated bikes far exceeds their value, making recovery of the confiscated property virtually impossible.

I feel that these pending cases are very important to follow as "test cases", and I will report the outcome. The attitude of the city prosecutor, reported by one individual, is especially encouraging. We certainly have to know what type of offense justifies impoundment and confiscation of an individual's personal property. There is nothing in the AZ motorized bike ordinance defining when a bike can be impounded.

Please correct my spelling error in the title of the thread. Sorry about that.

Thanks

 

[Stan4d]

Do you have any links to news sotries, or police reports? I would be interested in reading more on the cases.

I also wonder how the rest of the AZ members think on this, so I will remain out of it. But my interest will remain because I was looking to AZ laws to form a basis for changing or adding to the laws in TX.

 

[kerf]

Problem in Tucson, perhaps you should move here. Al has no definition for an MB, hence they should be a "motor vehicle" thus illegal (no tag). At a quarter of five this morning, in complete darkness, I rode in front of a Sheriff deputy's car, as he was coming out of an apartment complex. Fifteen minutes later I passed a Birmingham PD car on U.S. Highway 11 and nobody gave me a second look. I was running about 25 on the first one and about 35 on the second.

Glad to be in Alabama, where the police look for crooks not old fat guys on bicycles.

 

[loquin]

The issue with exceeding 20 mph on a motorized bike in AZ is NOT that you'll get a speeding ticket (unless you're over the posted speed limit also,) but that you'll be charged with driving a motorized vehicle (moped) without registration or insurance.

 

[azbill]

as a long-time AZ rider (4yrs-20k+ miles),,,
I have tried to keep aware of legalities regarding MB's

state law clearly says less than 20mph, and that is easily broken by coasting

I believe the problems in Tucson are because there are so many bikes there
(not all, or even most of them are being ridden responsibly), that they drew bad attention to the cause

I have been ticketed under a local by-law forbidding go-peds, mini-bikes, etc..., and beat the ticket in court by proving I fell under the state's definition of a MB
after all this time, and being seen so much (I take my grandkids to/from school every day), I am well known and don't get hassled anymore

I even went the pro-active route, and befriended the mayor and a councilman here (if anyone tries to make a local law against MB's, they know at least one person who is a legal/responsible rider)
btw...they both really dig the girls and their trailer

please check out the pdf attached from tucson's web site (dated Sept 2006)

 

[cactusamigo]

Do you have any links to news sotries, or police reports? I would be interested in reading more on the cases.

I also wonder how the rest of the AZ members think on this, so I will remain out of it. But my interest will remain because I was looking to AZ laws to form a basis for changing or adding to the laws in TX.

Stan4d - I do not have any of the documents that you request. None of this has hit the media. However, if you contact TOOLMANAZ68, he may be able to give you the details of his citations. Since he is appealing his citations, he will probably obtain any police report available in order to prepare for his case. Generally, there are no police reports prepared when simple citations are written. However, since these actions involved impoundment of personal property, I would expect that the actions were documented by a police report. There are no links to TPD police reports. If available, they have to be purchased from the TPD, and take a couple of weeks to obtain.