UPDATED : Idaho

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by DuctTapedGoat, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    So, I just got done talking with the DMV Investigator. The first three sections are the gist of it. I was unable to find the braking requirements for motorcycles at the supposed location. As well, he didn't mention about the power drive system by the moped - I gather it means it's legal if it's an automatic as opposed to manual shiftkit? A VIN can be assigned to the bike here in Idaho, though it seems tricky. You have to be able to get it over 50MPH, pass inspection as far as braking is concerned, and get all required vehicle equipment (http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title49/T49CH9.htm).

    There are 4 classifications, but one I can't find info on, which is motor-driven cycles.

    Moped:
    *Has Pedals
    *Less than 50cc AND does not exceed 30MPH
    *At least one wheel with a brake
    ~Street legal, no licensing/registration required.

    MotorBike:
    *Has Pedals
    *50cc or more
    *At least one wheel with a brake
    ~Not street legal, can be registered/titled for offroad use only.

    Motorcycle:
    *No pedals
    *Any sized motor
    *Brakes comply with Idaho Code (?) 49-933 (?)
    http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title49/T49CH9SECT49-933.htm



    "Moped" means a limited-speed motor-driven cycle having:
    (a) Both motorized and pedal propulsion that is not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed in excess of thirty (30) miles per hour on level ground, whether two (2) or three (3) wheels are in contact with the ground during operation. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed fifty (50) cubic centimeters and the moped shall have a power drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting by the operator after the drive system is engaged; or
    (b) Two (2) wheels or three (3) wheels with no pedals, which is powered solely by electrical energy, has an automatic transmission, a motor which produces less than two (2) gross brake horsepower, is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than thirty (30) miles per hour on level ground and as originally manufactured, meets federal motor vehicle safety standards for motor-driven cycles. A moped is not required to be titled and no motorcycle endorsement is required for its operator.

    "Motorbike" means a vehicle as defined in section 67-7101, Idaho Code. Such vehicle shall be titled and may be approved for motorcycle registration pursuant to section 49-402, Idaho Code, upon certification by the owner of the installation and use of conversion components that make the motorbike compliant with federal motor vehicle safety standards.

    "Motorcycle" means every motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three (3) wheels in contact with the ground that meets the federal motor vehicle safety standards as originally designed, and includes a converted motorbike, but does not include a motor-driven cycle, a motorbike, a tractor or a moped.

    "Motor-Driven Cycle" means a cycle with a motor that produces five (5) brake horsepower or less as originally manufactured that meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as originally designed, and does not include mopeds. Such vehicle shall be titled and a motorcycle endorsement is required for its operation.
     

  2. Dave C

    Dave C Member

    Well, then I have nothing to worry about even though I have a 66cc motor. There's no way it will go over 30 with the gearing I have. The cops seem to not care about the clutch though. It's one of those rediculous things that get added to laws and are never enforced. I mean, really, what difference could it possibly make as to if the clutch is automatic or manual? I can say this: auto trans in cars rob power and gas milage. :/
     
  3. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    Addendum to Idaho law

    There is one giant flaw that I would like to point out in any cops arguments that you need registered, etc, etc.

    Idaho statute 49-114 section 9b last sentence states "A moped is not required to be titled and no motorcycle endorsement is required for its operator."

    Idaho statute 49-123 section G states;
    "Motor vehicle. Every vehicle which is self-propelled, and for the purpose of titling and registration meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as defined in section 49-107, Idaho Code. Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code."

    Right there, it states that a moped is not a motor vehicle. Any statute that a cop tries telling you applies to your moped is false. Every requirement including registration, insuring, having a valid drivers license, needing a headlight, taillight, rear reflector, brake light, rear mirror, brake,
    and a horn in compliance with Idaho Code 49- 905 thru 908, 933, 940, 956, specifically applies to motor vehicles. mopeds are specifically exempt from titling and having a motorcycle endorsement in the definition of a moped.

    For example 49-301 Drivers to be licensed. (1) No person, except those expressly exempted by the provisions of this chapter, shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway . . . etc"

    Feel free to point that out to the next officer that pulls you over and see what his reaction is.
     
  4. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    I feel you're slightly mistaken.

    Registration - Not required.
    Insurance - Not required unless necessary to register.
    Driver's License - NOT ADDRESSED. Though it is assumed that it is not due to that it does state an M endorsement is not required. 49-114(9B)
    Headlight and Rear Reflector - Light and reflector required at night, must be visible from 500 feet. 49-723
    Brake light - NOT ADDRESSED.
    Rear Mirror - NOT ADDRESSED.
    Brakes - A moped is by definition "a limited speed motor-driven cycle". "Every motorcycle and every motor-driven cycle, when operated upon a highway, shall be equipped with at least one (1) brake, which may be operated by hand or foot." 49-933(2)
    Horn - NOT ADDRESSED.



    49-123 (2)
    "Vehicle" means:
    (a) General. Every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

    49-114 (13)
    "Motor-Driven Cycle" means a cycle with a motor that produces five (5) brake horsepower or less as originally manufactured that meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as originally designed, and does not include mopeds. Such vehicle shall be titled and a motorcycle endorsement is required for its operation.

    By true definition it does not meet the definition of motor vehicle, but that ONLY means that the DMV has no control over you. The police do, and they only have the interpretation of the law that helps them uphold it. What you can do is not be rude to police (what a concept), and explain the actual codes which make a difference.

    49-114 (9B)
    "A moped is not required to be titled and no motorcycle endorsement is required for its operator."

    There still remain laws you have to abide by. Standard vehicle operation laws, bicycle laws (and the perks that come with it), as well as additional moped and subsequent motor-driven cycle laws.
     
  5. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    ok

    I like criticism and am open to debate but there is nothing in my post that you disproved. As far as the ones that are not addressed, that was my original point. All of the requirements that I have been told apply to our mopeds is in fact required for "motor vehicles". As I pointed out, a moped is not a motor vehicle.

    As far as the brakes requirements goes, reread the statute.

    a moped is defined as a "limited-speed motor-driven cycle", but there is no definitions for a "limited-speed motor-driven cycle". The closest you will find is 49-114(13) "Motor-driven cycle" which specifically excludes mopeds from it's definition. Therefore your comment stating brakes are required is false.

    I can back up what I posted in the Idaho code. Every requirement that I have ever heard supposedly applying to mopeds, applies to motor vehicles, not mopeds.

    Feel free to quote the Idaho statutes that back up your claims of not needing registration or insurance, as they are not addressed. There is nothing in the Idaho statutes that require anything of mopeds. There is the definitions of a moped, the exclusions of what a moped is not, that is it.

    The whole point of my post, was to point out that all of the requirements that the dmv and police officers will try to write a ticket to us for, is not supported by the Idaho Code. If your speeding, swerving in traffic, or just riding dangerously, that is outside the scope of my post and you deserve a ticket.

    I never mentioned how you act on the road, only that there are no requirements to operate your moped on the road.
     
  6. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    Honestly, I'm glad you're in Twin - I don't have to worry about you flying down the street at 35 with no lights no brakes and hitting me.

    What I care about is just not what you care about.

    Laws exist - I just laid out half of them, though you don't believe they "apply to you". I'm more than willing to accept that laws apply to me, and my goal (very different from yours) is to find what laws apply and follow them, informing other people what those laws are.

    Ignorance of those laws is simply blind.


    The more people go telling the cops "Laws don't apply to me, cause I have a bicycle with a motor," the faster legislation is going to PUT restrictions on motorized bicycles.

    So, I take it as a pretty personal attack when you say "The law doesn't require you to have brakes", and that you're more than willing to tell that to an officer.
     
  7. Dave C

    Dave C Member

    49-114 (9B)
    "A moped is not required to be titled and no motorcycle endorsement is required for its operator."

    That is all I need right there. Let an officer debate that with the legislature. By giving him the section of the code it's up to him to go to his computer and look it up. I'd bet he'd tell me to move along, these arn't the 'droid's we're looking for...;)


    Little p.s.: I'm lit up like a Christmas Tree at night. I'm in enough pain all the time and don't need to have some D'bag plow me and say, "I couldn't see you." Yah, BS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  8. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    Ok, you took both of my posts out of context. If english isn't your first language please have someone translate for you.

    I never said I was going to be speeding down the road. And the reference to headlights and brakes, refers to the Idaho statutes 49-905 and 49-933(2), not the Idaho statute 49-723. You are required to have them by the bicycle statute, not the motor vehicle statute.

    My goal is the same as your if you would reread what I actually wrote instead of trying to put words in my mouth. I never stated there are no laws that apply to use, that would just be stupid. There are laws that apply to bicycles we have to follow along with general laws of the road under statute 49-714.

    The point that I have tried to say twice now, is that there are requirements for motor vehicles that do not apply to us.

    When you say "So, I take it as a pretty personal attack when you say "The law doesn't require you to have brakes", and that you're more than willing to tell that to an officer." I never said you do not need brakes at all. I said you are not required by statute 49-933.

    Now, go back and reread what I originally said, and stop trying to imply things that I never wrote. If you still do not realize that I was not advocating breaking the law in anyway, please go back to school and learn to read.
     
  9. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    Maybe that attitude works up in Twin, but it doesn't do anything for you here.

    The purpose of this topic is NOT ANYTHING close to about cops pulling people over for violations that don't exist. Do a search before you post because guess what? :beatdeadhorse5: It's been done - a multitude of times.

    This topic actually exists because I spoke with the DMV investigator looking into how one COULD register and insure a motorized bicycle, thus the information, and differences listed.

    Do you want to go beat a dead horse? Do it in another thread where that actually is the topic.
     
  10. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    Lets cool down. The purpose of this section is to share knowledge and facts.
     
  11. Dave C

    Dave C Member

    That's the problem with this state, stan. You can have the freaking laws right in front of you and can find conflicting laws on the same subject.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2011
  12. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    I have no idea why you would want to try registering and insuring a "motorized bicycle". I agree I posted my info in the wrong topic and that is my mistake, but trying to register/insure a "motorized bicycle" is just stupid.

    It's stupid because first off, there is no such thing as a "motorized bicycle" according to Idaho law. Feel free to try disproving me with an Idaho statute. And secondly, it's stupid because you are going to convince/ confuse the dmv that our vehicles need to be registered and insured. If you want a motorcycle/motorbike, just go buy one.

    I have spent the better part of the last 5 weeks trying to educate and inform my local dmv, Twin Falls Sheriff's dept, and the Idaho Transportation Dept, and people like you want to just add more confusion!
     
  13. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    The blue area is specific to bicycles and handicapped mobility devices.
     
  14. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    You could do what many here in Texas are doing.......drive right and do not worry about it. With the laws as confusing as they are if you ever get a ticket....then again don't worry about it. It is unlikely 12 people will resolve it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  15. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    Not trying to argue with ya stan but the blue sentence can also be referring to other vehicles than just "bicycles and handicapped mobility devices". For example a lawn tractor. And that quote doesn't prove the existence of "motorized Bicycles"

    The whole point of my discussion is that the laws are not confusing regarding "mopeds" here in Idaho, they are non existant. There was a pamphlet posted by the City of Meridean PD, that required mopeds operators to need a valid drivers license, headlights, taillights, rear reflector, brake light, rear mirror, brake, and a horn in compliance with Idaho Code 49- 905 through 908, 933, 940, 956. I was able to get it pulled down because the officer I contacted was unable to provide proof those things were needed.

    According to that pamphlet, you were also not allowed to ride mopeds anywhere other than "private foot paths". With DuctTapedGoat trying to register/insure his bike, that is what the dmv is gonna remember.

    Some people never read the law, they just go by what has always been done and what they remember. I had a 30 minute argument with a dmv supervisor a few days ago about mopeds needing a valid drivers license, and even with her reading the Idaho statutes with me she was resistant to admitting the wording of the law because mopeds have "always needed a drivers license".
     
  16. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    Sorry I was only trying to help. I thought "Every vehicle which is self-propelled" was pretty clear.
    But I will leave you with this thought. Today, do you really believe that DuctTapedGoats attempt to registar his bike is remembered and your arguments with DMV are not. Sometimes it might be wiser to go another route than argue with the one who you may need help from later.
    A court room or the legislature is the place for arguing this. Not with a police officer or a DMV worker. I would bet they have all heard your and ducttapedgoats arguments hundreds of times, and in the case of the officer he probably will respond with "Tell it to the Judge".
     
  17. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    I'm tired of banging my head against this wall so I'll leave you with this.

    Had you finished the rest of that sentence, you would realize that our bikes do not meet the definition of the FMVSS. The law is not a chinese buffet. Chopping out the parts you like to try proving your point and leaving the rest.

    "Every vehicle which is self-propelled, and for the purpose of titling and registration meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as defined in section 49-107, Idaho Code."

    49-107
    (5) "Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS)" means those safety standards established by the national highway traffic safety administration, under title 49 CFR part 500-599, for the safe construction and manufacturing of self-propelled motorized vehicles for operation on public highways. Such vehicles as originally designed and manufactured shall be so certified by the manufacturer to meet the federal motor vehicle safety standards or the standards in force for a given model year or as certified by the national highway traffic safety administration.
     
  18. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    OK. Herre you go. No cafeteria buffet. Entire law:

    Now please show where it is specifically exempt.

    I am only involved in this thread due to the close to the line insults that were noticed earlier. I will now bow out, but continue to moderate the thread.

    I do not know if I have welcomed you to MBc yet.
    So welcome! Please review forum rules and enjoy your MBc experience.
     
  19. greedyrogue

    greedyrogue New Member

    statute 49-114 moped definition:
    (9) "Moped" means a limited-speed motor-driven cycle having:
    (a) Both motorized and pedal propulsion that is not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed in excess of thirty (30) miles per hour on level ground, whether two (2) or three (3) wheels are in contact with the ground during operation. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed fifty (50) cubic centimeters and the moped shall have a power drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting by the operator after the drive system is engaged; or
    (b) Two (2) wheels or three (3) wheels with no pedals, which is powered solely by electrical energy, has an automatic transmission, a motor which produces less than two (2) gross brake horsepower, is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than thirty (30) miles per hour on level ground and as originally manufactured, meets federal motor vehicle safety standards for motor-driven cycles. A moped is not required to be titled and no motorcycle endorsement is required for its operator.
     
  20. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    What are you arguing about? Registration or title?
     
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