Using Copper coat on head gasket

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by Al.Fisherman, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    Years ago, back in the 60's and 70's head gaskets were made like these on the bike motors, thin metal, no coating. We used Copper Coat on them until the self sealing gaskets came about. I blew a head gasket yesterday (stock studs) and will mod to grade 8.8 bolts on the head and studs on exhaust, (supply house had bolts only no studs). Two questions...Has anyone used bolts replacing the head studs, is there anyone that uses Copper Coat, and do you feel there is a difference vs no sealer. Although I wouldn't use Locktite (blue) on the bolts but will on the exhaust manifold...how tough would it be to remove a bolt/stud with blue vs red.
     

  2. mountain80

    mountain80 Member

    I changed my studs out to grade 12.8 and use a thinner handmade copper gasket. After 3 or 4 retorques it is tight as a drum no need for copper coat. If you use red loctite it will require heat to remove. Heres a trick i use as well: when cutting the studs to length I make the length installed so that they are as high as the top of the fins so they will maybe help a smidge to disperse a little heat, also use hardened washers and nuts and everything will stay nice and tight.
     
  3. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Blue versus red.
    Blue: common service removable.
    Red: special tools or techniques are required.
    That said I have used red many, many times when I neede to secure a fastner I knew I would not need to "service" for years and years to come.
    I also have rarely needed to use any tool more special that a combination wrench or ratchet and a really hard yank to undo the red.

    A word of caution, heat is the best way to soften up Loc-Tite that will not unlock. Common blue or red Loc-Tite used in an exhaust application will soften or entirely melt when used in such an application.
    There are a couple of industrial grades made specifically to be used in such an application. They do not melt or soften, actually they only hold on tighter.
    To use one of those varieties though you may just as well have welded the stud in place. Short of drilling it out it will never come out, EVER.
     
  4. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    bolts/studs

    Now to round off the question I would like some feedback as to the use of bolts vs studs. Has anyone done this and what was the outcome?
     
  5. Hawaii_Ed

    Hawaii_Ed Member

    I have used the spray copper everytime I open my engine, seems like it can only help. Bolts would be fine as long as you get the exact right length. Maybe we can contact ARP and get them to make a head bolt kit for happytime :)
     
  6. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    cc

    I bought the spray can as I couldn't find the ole dabber bottle.. I bought some grade 8.8 bolts (as they didn't have studs..did have all thread in grade 5). They were longer, I cut them down so as not to completely bottom out. Pulls head tight without the two washers or head gasket.
    I like the idea of bolts vs studs...one connection vs two. And 4"'s from the BOTTOM of the bolt head to the end of the threads is just right.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  7. h0tr0d

    h0tr0d Member

    Bolts are meant to have nuts on the other end. You can replace nuts, they are sacrificial. The reason that I would use studs on everything (the jug/heads, exhaust, intake) is because every time you take a bolt out of that cast jug or casing you risk stripping the tapped threads. Then you have a real problem.

    If you use studs they are installed only once and drastically reduce the chance of stripping out the tapped threads in the casing, exhaust or intake. The nut becomes the sacrificial item again.

    Just imagine how many times you have taken the nuts off of the exhaust or just tightened them. When you do that you never risk stripping the threads in the casing, just the stud or the nut ( which cost a nickle instead of tapping a new, larger hole in the jug ).

    I normally don't write this much, but I hope you take my advise. These jugs are not very tough compared to the grade 2.5, 5 or 8 threads you plan on using.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  8. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    .

    h0tr0d...point well made. That was something I hadn't thought about, which is most likely why Volkswagen had the same set-up.
     
  9. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I have heard good comments about the copper spray but I have not used it myself. What has worked really well for me is aluminum filled spray paint. I use a can I bought a couple years ago at an industrial supply shop, it's not purpose made for head gaskets, but it seems to have quite a bit of Al in it. Just shake really well, hang the gasket, shake some more and bomb can both sides. Use wet or allow to dry. Make a super seal.
     
  10. spad4me

    spad4me Member

    I live in the middle of nowhere!

    I finally bought the coppet gasket paint from auto zone.
    Where do you buy the aluminum paint ??

    What brand ?
    I have ace , lowes, and wallmart.
    They only sell krylon which does not even list its ingredients
     
  11. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    No need to buy the paint, the can of Copper Coat will more then likely last you many years. When we didn't have Copper Coat we also used the paint.
     
  12. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    The aluminum spray paint is exactly that, aluminum colored spray paint. It has very, very fine specks of aluminum in it. Nothing special, no brand better than the other as far as sealing head gaskets is concerned.
     
  13. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I agree with the others. If you have the Cu paint, you are all set.

    I bought my Al paint at Tacoma Screw.

    SEYMOUR Brand. MRO, high solids (~23%). 620-1411 http://www.seymourpaint.com/mro_enamels.pdf
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
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