Vendors: PLEASE READ - Vendor Rules

Discussion in 'Dealer Advertisements' started by Tom, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. Tom

    Tom Active Member

    Vendor Rules

    1. Vendors may not promote their products on the forum. (With the exception of the Vendor Area - see below.)


    Vendors may mention their products outside of the vendor area when:


    A. They are specifically asked. "Specifically asked" means a member asked a question about your product. For example:

    You may respond to this with technical assistance. DO NOT USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SELL. You will be given an infraction for trying to sell, so watch what you say. A good guideline would be to ask yourself the question "How would you respond if it was a private conversation?".

    If the thread topic is:

    If you carry the exact same product, but for a lower price, you may add to the conversation by saying that you carry the exact same product but for a lower price. This is allowed because you are furthering the thread's usefulness while remaining within the original poster's intended content (cheapest place to buy a particular part).

    If the question is:

    YOU MAY NOT TRY TO SELL. Feel free to respond, but mentioning your company or products is not allowed. Simply rely on other neutral members to mention your product. Even saying so much as "Send me a PM" is not allowed.

    B. Your product happens to come up as part of the discussion.

    If, for example, you are building a bike and mentioning the parts you use, and one of them is your product, simply mention it as part of the overall post. Stay objective and don't try to show off your product.

    If the intent of the thread is to show off your product, the thread belongs in the Vendor Area. This includes photo albums! No selling by creating a photo album!


    2. Vendors may not use their signature as a method of selling.

    Use your signature to list your affiliations, but no selling terms are allowed in your signature.

    Here are unacceptable signatures:
    This is acceptable:
    All live signature links must be reciprocated! Any commercial link in your signature must include a reciprocal link to www.motoredbikes.com from your site. This is to help prevent spammers from posting in order to get more backlinks.


    3. Vendors may not bash competitors.

    Vendors must not discuss other products with the intent of making theirs look better. STAY OBJECTIVE!​


    Sponsors

    You may sponsor the forum and we will display your banner on the left hand side of the forum. To sign up go here: http://www.motoredbikes.com/ads/index.php?loc=view_adrates&uid=100000

    Perks of sponsors:
    • The custom title "MBc Sponsoring Vendor"
    You may make product announcements and start build threads in the vendor area, showing off your product and letting members know about your discounts.

    You may not bump your threads for the sake of bumping them, and you may not start unnecessary threads. (Please don't spam this area or you may lose your privileges.)

    Registered vendors may still receive infractions for not following the rules. There is no special treatment or consideration because you are a sponsor.


    Vendor Suggestions

    • Be a contributing forum member - help answer member questions without mentioning your products.
    • Do not mention your product anywhere outside the Vendor Area forum.
    • Do not discuss other vendors or their products at all.
    • Do not get into arguments or "flame wars" with other members - always "play nice" with the other members.
    • Provide a link back to www.motoredbikes.com from your website to show your support and appreciation of our community.

    If you try to follow all these suggestions and abide by the rules, we can develop a working, win-win, sustainable relationship that can be an asset to both you and the community.
     

  2. Tom

    Tom Active Member

    A vendor asked some clarification on Rule #1:

    Its acceptable to mention your products in your responses to other members, but remember to be completely unbiased. As long as you are focused on helping people with the best possible answer, its not a crime to mention your products. We simply don't want people answering questions just to advertise their products.

    If you do mention your products, mentioning alternatives without subjective comments can help prevent people from thinking you are spamming.

    Here is an example question:

    Here is an unacceptable vendor answer:

    Your motive for answering the question is obvious... You are clearly trying to get this person to buy from you.

    Here is a better vendor answer:

    You are showing this person and anyone else who sees this thread that there are several options as to where you can get what they are looking for without saying that yours is superior. Providing a thorough list of alternatives is adding value to the community.


    If you are unsure about whether or not mentioning your products will be acceptable, play it safe and don't mention them at all.
     
  3. augidog

    augidog Banned

    tom, thank you for this clarification.

    if i may (delete if you want) i'd like to show how i answer questions...

    in this topic, a new arrival has some questions about quality, i gave some generic answers: http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=136986&postcount=7

    in this topic, the issue of legality came up, i am qualified to give experienced info, so i did...there was no need to mention "my" product, in fact i was clear that there is more than one choice: http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=136136&postcount=6

    other than that, i avoid topics about other products, unless i see "mine" mentioned specifically, usually this is when i see someone giving advice about my offering that is just plain wrong.

    when i am asked about my product, i go for it, but still discuss pricing discretely.

    if i absolutely can't resist saying something that may be borderline, i will remove my signature with the commercial link.

    i also roam the forums, giving what i feel are helpful answers about safety and bicycle work...i feel that if you want someone's business, you should demonstrate yourself as worthy of it.

    when i was helping to build this place, we learned that anyone who just shows up to take advantage of traffic, and only-sell & never-help, is usually not worthy of your business. in all fairness, tho, we accepted them but corraled them into strict rules of conduct. this practice has since been improved upon by the new staff, by providing a "free" spot to advertise.

    i'm not afraid of competition, but a few of us provide financial support to the community. we earn our exposure thru support and community involvement...fair is fair...if ya wanna play, ya gotta pay :cool:

    is this ok? i hope so...as i said, please delete it if you'd like.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2008
  4. Tom

    Tom Active Member

    Updated rules will go into effect on Monday, May 11, 2009.
     
  5. Snake Bite

    Snake Bite Member

    Writing To Say I have read this Message.. and Rules are Rules.. Thanks DK/Helmutt Cycles..
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  6. JoelC707

    JoelC707 New Member

    Read and understood :yes:

    Joel
     
  7. thescooterguy

    thescooterguy Member

    got it . thanks . good rules makes for a good forum . one question . on my home page . what about that ? can i talk about my products ? things i'm working on , any specials i might have stuff like that . or just in the vendor area,
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  8. spunout

    spunout Member

    i dont want to be banned for god's sakes, but you can remove my vendor status anytime.
    thanks. :)
     
  9. Dug3x3

    Dug3x3 Guest

    To many rules.
     
  10. Read and understood, I will let the forum members mention me, and only respond in a neutral way, mentioning other brands and options for peoples questions rather than pushing my own agenda ! I will tread lightly.... I do NOT want to lose my membership, I also have a motoredbikes.com link on my website, I'm not sure I can afford 10$ a month so I will merely stop responding with my company name in my posts and just give wheel advise, hope this works out..... Jim...........
     
  11. Vendor rules

    Also, if you need me to change my screen name just let me know, if you need to remove Vendor status, let me know, whatever you need I'll agree to, I'm open...... I don't want to get booted, I love this place !
     
  12. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    Thread: Vendors: READ OR GET BANNED - Vendor Rules Reply to Thread

    Did not Mactac ask recently how many vendors there were on MotoredBikes?

    well, here is your answer, but it looks like the list needs a little updating

    Wasn't that post the start of this little upheaval?

    Would not it have been easier and better to just ban those troublemakers?

    Private Message: Vendor Rule Changes
    Recipients:
    Allan@CycleHappy.com,
    andyinchville1,
    Assisted Bikes,
    BestBikeEngine.com,
    BikeBerry.com,
    biketec,
    bill green,
    BlueCollarBikes,
    Current Moves,
    Dug3x3,
    FireBellyCycles,
    Forbisher,
    GasBike,
    Ghost0,
    Haggard,
    HardyBikes,
    Hot Dog Piggy Tails,
    Hoyt's Hellcat,
    HybriDude,
    HybriPed,
    Jacky Lee,
    JoelC707,
    lazybikeusa,
    macula,
    milegajo,
    MotorbikeMike,
    MotorKit,
    neicull,
    nsideus,
    Pablo,
    PowerGraft,
    Quenton Guenther,
    RevolutionCycles, Banned
    Saddletramp,
    skyhawkcanada,
    Snake Bite,
    Spooky Tooth,
    spunout,
    Stink Bike,
    thatsdax,
    the wheelmaster,
    thescooterguy,
    Thrustpacman,
    uncle_punk13,
    Waterfowl,
    wjcleveland,
    zoombicycles

    I will do you a favor Tom and update it within my 24 hour editing period
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  13. nsideus

    nsideus Guest

    I have a website but do not sell anything on it. I offer links to this website the other forums, even augidog's racing forum. There are links to websites that sell engine kits and bikes, pictures and some information, vendors can post a link on my site for free. Yes I sell kits to local customers and they know nothing about my website, does this still make me a vendor? I won't pay $10 month when I am selling nothing to anyone here
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2009
  14. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Tom, & advisers,

    I am not quite sure the sudden change in policy that effects so many so quickly is a good idea.

    I think a good look at reality might not hurt. What is a "Vendor"? Is a vendor a person or company that locates a problem, designs a fix or upgrade, and tries to figure out how to get the needed fix or upgrade to as many as possible for as little as possible because we really love motorbikes? When a part [or complete assembly] is required don't we always want the cheapest price? Can a person or company make one or two or three for a same price as 100 or 500 or 1000? I know "one off" parts cost a small fortune because I have made hundreds of them one at a time. I also know the cost of designing, proto-typing, and testing new products.

    I think many go to the MBc site to find solutions to their problems, and it is almost always the "Vendor" that have made the upgraded parts, invested the money to do so, and has committed to buy in quantity [maybe a few don't understand, that every fab shop, plating company, machine shop, shipper, vendor, mfg, etc always quotes prices by quantity] to make the part more affordable. The price of the needed part, upgrade, or accessory is ALWAYS less expensive per piece in larger numbers.

    Having said all this, it appears MBc has suddenly become anti “free enterprise”. Vendors are now ask to pay a fee each month [Looks like MBc might be using the free enterprise system], and in return we earn points in the infraction section for the following

    18 Points: Over-promoted in Vendor Area - Started threads more than once every two weeks, or bumping own threads.

    As vendors we can’t be expected to invest our money, effort, & time without a chance to offer solutions and at least get some of our money back. After all how many go to work each day for free? From the many calls and emails I have received, most were happy with MBc the way it was, and think only a few caused this major shift in policy.

    I can’t speak for all vendors, nor would I even try, but I bet you lose a lot of support and help on this site. You new rules will certainly make me limit the amount of help I once offered, of course that might make a few "special interest groups" very happy. If I understand the new system, I can’t promote my company except on a limited basis, can’t comment on any other product, and I should pay money each month to be censored.

    Will the consultants that forced this change be able to step in and help solve problems that vendors will not be allowed to respond to? Will the consultants suddenly become “Vendors” as the real experts migrate to the less regulated and censored websites?

    Several thoughts come to mind, first “Why fix it if it ain’t broke? secondly are we “catering to the few” instead of the majority?. What motives really caused this major change? Is it a crime to make a “dollar”? How many expect a “free lunch”? Is the “free enterprise system” banned from this site?

    Yesterday the topic during several meetings between our CA & NC offices was sponsorship of MBc, at a meeting earlier today we decided to become an MBc Sponsor and informed our web site director to take the necessary steps to supply the necessary banner for the sponsorship. Guess we need to re-think that decision until we see what unfolds at MBc.


    And as my final comment, I wish to thank those responsible for making this change at a time that companies or corporations can’t respond to in a timely fashion. Just for the record, EZM isn’t open for corporate decisions before your deadline.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  15. Excellent Quenton!!!

    I have yet to meet anyone who is into MB's "meaning they actually own one" that didn't want to, at least, hear about new products.

    I have my own opinions and fixes for this sort of thing, but I'll keep it to myself. It's not my forum.

    Jim
     
  16. augidog

    augidog Banned

    quite the stir...but some forget the history here. MBc isn't changing policy, imo, but reinstating (and redefining) a long-lost one...the consumer rules MBc...it's nice to discuss new ideas and products, as the users of the stuff...but trust the consumer to ask for the help or info if it's needed.

    trust me, while we relatively few have hotly debated whether people should be paying their way and should NOT be manipulating the situation like playing a game of "stratego"...the group has gone happily about it's business, the "business" of building and sharing, BUYING is a side-product of their productivity.

    MBc itself doesn't need supplier-support, the group however would like it, but i think they'd appreciate it more if it came without a big brass band in tow.

    the previous vendor setup was taken advantage of...it didn't have to be that way, but that's how it went.

    quenton, shoot i don't wanna get into it directly, but EZ really was a proverbial last-straw, your list of dealers it appears almost doubled the vendor population overnite...the huge benefit of having so many peeps with the same (then free) link is obvious to me, so i'm sure it was also obvious to your team. your site "counter" tells the tale. the individual dealers have been personal victims in this, and that's regretable...but they were kinda left dangling out there, without a clear plan. as a past manager of auto-repair franchises, the answer is obvious to me: a coupla dollars/month from each dealer and EZ would have had a banner up there ages ago...and this would never have been an issue.

    i need to say: from day one, you've been, imo, an upstanding, and OUTstanding, whizzer vendor here.

    but, as your EZ-endeavor began to come to light, y'all had choices to make. sure, we can say that some promotional "mistakes" were made as a result of lack of experience or intelligence, but doggone if i don't know (or strongly suspect) better, because you and mike are not only experienced, you're both very intelligent...

    in my case, it made me wonder: "mistake" or "brilliant manipulation"...? without clear answers from a single spokesperson, the doubt lingers.

    this is salvagable, for everyone, but it requires some to rethink strategies that shouldn't have been considered in the first place. my advice would be: take the hit, admit the mistakes, apologise if you think it'll help your company or individual endeavor, announce a new attitude and demonstrate your sincerety, then bask in the light of the RESPECT you'll receive from the group.

    nsideus: thank you for bringing to light your cross-linking efforts...i think we maybe can make use of such networking to help ourselves (the local businessperson)...if we aren't yet able to afford online status at MBc, at least we can find a "step-one" that could get us there someday.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  17. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Augi,

    Are you the new MBC police? Is the site to be run by your rules? Although you think EZM made marketing mistakes you seem to be in the minority. EZM watched less than stellar products being offered to our fellow motor bikers, we watched members upset because they wasted their money. EZM offered a solution, and you even admit we doubled the vendor population overnight. Do you know why? It was because our product addressed the drive train issues. I guess the sudden popularity of the new kid on the block was just too much for you.

    You seem to thrive on Drama, sad, really sad. Always remember everyone purchased his or her bike, parts, motors, etc from a VENDOR somewhere along the line. Everything including your shoes, clothes, the house you live in, a vendor somewhere along the line handled the gas you put in your motorbike.

    Your offensive comment about my IQ is really funny! I really like the part "we can say" who is we? You?

    'As your endeavor began to come to light, y'all had choices to make. Sure, we can say that some promotional "mistakes" were made as a result of lack of experience or intelligence, but doggone if I don't know better, because you and mike are not only experienced, you're both very intelligent..."

    I am not sure how smart you think you are, but you making the new rules at MBc will soon become evident.

    Many, many, many, many see you as the problem and a troublemaker, and think you are the cause of most of the drama on this site. I personally don't care if you run the site, and have avoided voicing my comments concerning your recent entry back into control of MBc. If the site wants you to set the standard, let it be so!

    And as far as you thoughts about EZM, just think about this..........We can sell every piece of inventory tomorrow by noon, but we chose not to, because we actually want to bring a product to the market that really works. Almost everyone would buy our drive system if we offered it, so if money was our only goal, I could be taking money to the bank in truckloads.

    I guess seeing a successful company enter the marketplace with real solutions and answers was more than some could handle. I always wanted to sponsor MBc, but one problem concerned me. If our corporate office purchased ads, and each EZM dealer purchased ads, how long would it have taken you to stir up more Drama about domination? Could you see the majority of the sponsorships being EZM dealers? Would you have been able to handle such an event? Is it my fault that so many like the EZM kit? Sometimes good news spreads as fast as bad news, as is the case with EZM.

    As far as I am concerned I would prefer you not mention EZM and go back to being a vendor for GEBE. I know GEBE is a great product and I wish them the best, and you won't find me try to change the rules or playing field because they might "sell" some product on this site. I think there is plenty of room for many companies to supply parts and kits to the motorbike public, and don't find it necessary to try to make rules to try to stop my competition.

    The average Motor biker needs upgrades & parts to fix the poor choices concerning poor quality offered in the past, but you don't think anyone should address these issues, we don't agree.

    Another of your low handed mouthy comments concerns the following....
    "in my case, it made me wonder: "mistake" or "brilliant manipulation"...?

    Who do you think you are? Who are you to wonder or comment with such contempt? For you to say or indicate "brilliant manipulation" is just too funny to even consider. No one has been manipulated, in fact you chose to opt out as an EZM dealer [thank you for that], however you comments indicate that the current dealers are stupid and are easily manipulated. Do you realize some of the leading motorbike experts are now EZM dealers, and I doubt they will agree with your comments about manipulation?

    Just what is your problem? Are you upset because we did it right? Are you upset because of the sudden success of EZM? Is the competition too much for you? Do you need Drama in your life? Are you unhappy when things are going smoothly? What would make you happy, no sponsors, no help, no new products, just everyone wandering around in a daze praying for a solution to their problems? Are you so used to expecting everything free and can't stand the idea of someone actually making a dollar to invest in more fixes & improvements.

    My last question is...... Why do you need to mess everything up for so many.

    I normally end my comments with "have fun", however I don't think it possible with you unless drama is attached.
    So let me end this post with

    Get a life, take some medicine, chill out, have a couple of drinks, just do something and leave us happy people alone.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  18. Please reply Tom

    Hello Tom, you will notice that I have been pretty quiet tho I do have a stake in what goes on here. I have been in the Motor Bicycle Business much longer than most anyone who writes here. I am now concerned with a very poorly thought out change of policy. I am a little confused, as your censorship concepts to the dealer community made me feel a bit like I had somehow landed in the heart of Communist Russia.

    Since you do not wish to answer personally, privately, and in confidence to every vendor, I see no course other than to post here openly. Below please find the quote that you pm'd me and apparently all the other vendors that you could identify.

    Obviously most of us do not agree with your new tactics driven by a persistent unidentified stranger (Mac Tac) who was allowed to berate, and belittle your moderators without challenge from you and fueled obviously by Augi, your former trouble making administrator.

    This being the case, I am excited to have this opportunity to ask you publicly to respond to every point made in Quenton Gunthers post above. You can be sure, that all the rest of the honest vendors are anxiously awaiting your reply.

    We appreciate your attention to this matter, as your self-imposed deadline is coming soon, and many of us need to decide what we think is right and what we will do,


    Vendor Rule Changes
    Be sure to read the New Vendor Rules to be enforced starting Monday, May 11, 2009.

    If you have any questions or comments, PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME A PM. I don't want to answer 50 PM's. Simply reply to the vendor rules with your question or comment for clarification.

    Your vendor status will be removed on Monday, (unless you have already subscribed) and you must subscribe and re-request your status to be changed to Vendor if you want to continue to use the vendor area.


    Thanks for taking the time to respond to the people who are most affected by this new restrictive set of rules, in themselves among the largest of the mistakes that I have seen committed here.


    Mike Simpson,
    Dealer, Vendor , manufacturer, and enthusiast.
     
  19. augidog

    augidog Banned

    a "meeting place" not a "sales-fest"

    check my sig...i don't officially promote anything or anyone here, business-wise...and until we have some clarity, i won't. if it matters, my "affiliation" agrees and wonders why i bother at all here considering the direction the place inadvertantly took. i bother because i love MBc as originally conceived.

    and, i don't think the EZ dealers were manipulated. i think that conditions were taken advantage of beyond reason, and i think that hurt the dealers before they even had a chance. did y'all consider including Tom in your plans for growth, and give him a chance to help attain some definition and clarity? nope, all you did was paint him into a corner. to repeat, a buck or two from each dealer would have placed a banner up top from the get-go...and we would NOT be having this discussion. sorry, EZ, but this is on you.

    i'd like EZM to succeed. at this point, i don't care if you believe that or not. i want the company to succeed for the benefit of the local builder. the internet part of your effort could have been handled a lot differently, so just keep blaming this on me, and ignore the mistakes...we already have plenty of aggressive suppliers who'd rather place bottom-line over image. based on what we were being told, i thought you guys were gonna be different. i still think you can be different, but right now all i can recall is when other industry leaders tried to push MBc around. somewhere along the line, someone has to realize that bottom-line isn't very far up the list of priorities here.

    the consumer rules MBc.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  20. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    i think that conditions were taken advantage of beyond reason.


    Please be bold enough to give us your thoughts concerning "beyond reason".


    I and many others are waiting to hear your vision of a perfect world. We also await your concept of how you plan to run MBc.

    Quenton
    Hi again Augi, I see you are changing your post again after someone has commented. Just because you think we made mistakes doesn't mean a single thing to me, after all you certaintly aren't a business expert. You keep commenting on our mistakes, sorry you seem to be in the minority with that comment. We have inventory, we have dealers [adding more on a daily basis], we have one of the best kits in the market place, we are priced similar to our competiters, we are exicited, so what am I missing? I see our only problem is being able to meet the demand.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
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