Water Injection

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Water in the intake tract adds to combustion pressure as the water droplets become vaporized and expand due to the combustion heat.
It is a non-conventional way to get more power out of an engine. One way to do it is by normal vacuum that is only allowed to suck in water droplets above a certain RPM. But that would require two water tanks. One would be lower than the intake tract and its level always maintained the same by a float controlled valve, with water fed to it from a higher tank. Since I doubt I can find something like that I am considering looking for a windshield wiper pump and a relay that switches power to it off and on. The relay would be controlled by electronic circuitry that detects RPM (I know how to do that). Yes I know that water is not ideal on oil lubricated parts but the actual amount is very small, maybe one twentieth the amount of gasoline, and having it turn on only at higher RPM means that letting the engine idle a few seconds before turning it off will dry out the parts from all water. The injection point for a vacuum controlled system would have to be between the engine and the carburetor. With a pump it could be before the carb.

Here's the best page on the subject with a way to do it that relies only on intake vacuum, not a pump:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html
Here's a forum post about both types of water injection: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1011142-2-strokes-and-water-injection/
Here's a page about injecting a pipe: http://www.saltmine.org.uk/randy/h2o-injection.html

from one site on the subject:
A superb octane-improver and ancillary coolant is that oldie but goodie water injection: humidifying the combustion air.
Contrary to what would be expected from the fact that water vapour is a product of combustion, its presence before the fuel is burnt stimulates more complete burning. Several benefits, easily added to a wide variety of engines, can flow from this odd fact.
History
The essential idea was developed in the first decade of the 20th century. The original purpose was cooling. By 1910 some engines which had been water-cooled were simply produced without water-jackets after addition of 'internal cooling', as water-injection was first called.
Those engines had compression ratios around 4:1 and the phenomenon of preignition (knocking, pinking) was unknown. Later however this became themain reason for water injection, which turns out to give spectacular octane improvement, allowing CR as high as 13:1. By the end of WorldWar II many aero engines used water-injection. German versions use water-methanol mixtures, partly because straight water would freeze in winter. The Wright Cyclone, a main U.S. aero engine, tested with water and methanol-water (the two liquids being miscible in all proportions, unlike methanol & petrol), showed 50:50 best (as had the Germans). The results were summarised as "high savings in fuel cost - 52% at 100% power, decreasing to 25% at low cruise powers . . . pure water is approximately equal to fuel when used as an engine internal coolant at high power".Water gained the Corsair (flown by some Kiwi pilots in the Pacific) 350bhp on its normal maximum of 2100bhp - a 17% increase. These were supercharged engines, so the results may not translate readily to normal aspiration.
Another alcohol, infamous ethanol, was similarly mixed with water before injection, but was not as good.
When Renault attacked Formula1 with twin turbos cramming several atmospheres of boost into Gordini's1500cc V6, they readily achieved 450bhp but burned holes in pistons. Then a Kiwi mechanic recalled water-injection; a reliable 550bhp won the championship. The Saab turbo works rally car at one period had a water tank as big as the petrol tank.
Some modern gas-turbine aero engines use water-injection for maximum power at takeoff. Various naval and railway external-combustion rigs are improved by steam injection.
 
If you have an expansion chamber and you made it to inject into the header of the exhaust pipe then it would just lower the rpm range of the pipe powerband unless you turned it off when increasing into the high rpm range. Doing it that way broadens the engines powerband.
 
If you have an expansion chamber and you made it to inject into the header of the exhaust pipe then it would just lower the rpm range of the pipe powerband unless you turned it off when increasing into the high rpm range. Doing it that way broadens the engines powerband.

That sounds like a great mod too! I had been thinking of adding an injection of liquid oxygen laden fuel or water as a nitrous like boost on demand. Then there is always a tiny bit of hydrazine/ammonia nitrate, a terribly powerful liquid explosive. The water injection sounds really good though. Good and user friendly ;-) A small electric motor pump for the injection/spraying sounds really good because it will allow you to control the amount of water delivered at certain rpm's, via electronic control. Maybe it would be a good mechanism to find the proper needle/jet diameter to restrict the flow at some point.

Now lets consider water as a fuel. AS many know, there exist catalysts and electronic systems with specilly tuned resonance cell/chambersand temperatures to frequencies to allow the splitting of water into hydrogen with very little miliamps of electricity. This is complicated though and perhaps unneccesary. I've read some material about the dissasociation of oxygen and hydrogen at temperatures higher than 450 C and perhaps this might be part of the power increase mechanism involved with water injection. The mere fact that the water mist may be immediately turned into overheated steam (to some degree depending on conditions), could lead us to believe that part of the trick is in steam power. Like as in locomotive.

There is little reason to believe that mainstream science and industry would not try to cover up energy technology advances during the industrial era preceeding internet. Internet gives us a handle to hold on with because the shear numbers of people tinkering and sharing on youtube and so on will create some deterence to those that think they should assasinate inventors for the sake of protecting oil and gas. The downside is the large amount of snake oil men, scammers and perhaps just provocatures that try to present and or sell fake technologies/kits, etc.. If using water is interesting to anyone, then they should take time to study the technology of GEET, invented by David Pantone. I'm not sure his engines are really applicable for all purposes since they can basically work at a certain rpm. But running an engine on almost any liquid is kind of appealing in some cases. A generator for a hybrid electric car for example. Besides the GEET technology, there have been a number of other attempts to modify typical water using magnets to achieve a hydrogen/oxygen liquid fuel. I can't vouch for this, but it seems to me that by ionizing the water and affecting it with magnetism at the same time could seriously change it's properties and perhaps in a convenient manner for internal combustion engine fuel. One thing is for sure, it couldn't hurt to try. I would add the small amount of liquid oxygen to the water just before ionizing and magnetism(strong and spinning). There was a fellow that made a torsion field device that imprinted the innebriating properties of alchohol onto de-ionized(chemicals) water. The water would actually make people drunk. Also, there would be a question of which water to start with to turn it into a fuel, or try. De-ionizing it of chemical ions would be a start and perhaps distillation. We have an institute here that has created a special kind of "lite" water that has all kinds of amazing health benefits. I know that simply words and music have a great affect on how water crystalizes into snow or ice when quickly cooled in the prescence of liquid nitrigen. Also cycles of freezing and thawing has some effect as well. Theres alot of things to try or combine in experiments with changing properties of water. I know there are also special magnetic treatment devices for putting on fuel or gas lines that supposedly increase BTU output of the fuel that is burned. A cavitation generator would be something to look into to. Spinnig rotors, or discs with holes drilled through them create cavitation which is what happens when vacuum bubbles appear and then implode onto themselves creating temperatures higher than on the suns surface. That in itself can bring about nuclear transmutation of elements. I have a colleauge that worked with one institute and they had created such a cavitational generator and then added chemical compounds to the water before cavitating. The result was the appearence of different elements that they had not added. Transmutaion, though cavitational forces can hardly be called low energy nuclear reaction. Not really nuclear, but thermal and not low energy, but high energy.

The trick might be in some yet unknown catalyst though. A small amount of some kind of nanoparticles that turns water into perfect liquid fuel..

So for our purposes, I would say that distilling and freezing and magnetic methods would be within our capabilities. I am not sure how much time liquid oxygen could sit saturating water or gasoline before it excesses would evaporate. A small pressure sealed flask might be required to store it for injection on demand -to keep it from evaporating out of the mix.
 
I'd love to do intake side water injection, but as you see I don't exactly have room for it in my intake tract
LXEQW5Hh.jpg

I thought about injecting it after the reeds but I feel like that would just pump fuel into the water tank every downstroke.

I wonder about simply injecting it before the carburetor, sort of like one of those top hat nitrous systems.
 
if it relies on vacuum then it needs to be after the carb, and if relying on a water pump then before the carb will do.
T it into that black hose.
 
a pressurized tank with a trigger would work every bit as good, but I'm thinking homemade water pump driven off a sprocket with a centrifugal clutch so it only kicks in at high rpms would be a fun project. overcomplicated, but should be bulletproof, and if desired could be sold as a bolt on kit
 
for your vacuum idea, float controlled valve on a small tank fed by a secondary tank sounds like a carburetor to me. 2 carbs in the same line should do the trick. you'll just have to have 2 tanks, which you'd have needed anyway
 
ultrasonic water fogger.

wonder if you could drive the piezo directly from the ignition somehow or tap into it via a line transformer and a tank circuit?

spraying the stuff is too hard... maybe.

rather than a spraybar you need a lil venturi inside the intake... sorta like the baby throats when you crack open some quad barrel holleys...

suck it up rather than pump it in. still pretty hard to get the stuff to vaporise right... heat it up with a few turns of copper tubing in the fins :) only turn on when hot...



simplest test is just that...get one of those misters, preferably a brass one, start soldering to the steel intake manifold.. mount a lever, cable to it, squeeze for a squirt...iunno.

isnt there going to have to be some mixture changes being made?


boom!
 
can we start a new thread on keely and such forth rather than put it in this one?

im with the theme, theres plenty of tech thats supressed so we can be herded around like turkeys... but this is not the thread to say so!


this is merely using water as an additive for performance enhancement...cus its legal still, unlike some things that are better left unsaid... :geek:
 
go ahead and start another thread for exotic modifications.

Ultrasonic foggers are for ponds and produce too much. Ultrasonic humidifiers may work but they run on 60W AC.
 
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