Wheel Nightmare - Grubee HD Hub - Any Help?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by klassard, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. klassard

    klassard Member

    I apologize as this is mentioned in other threads but I haven't seen a resolution yet.

    I purchased a grubee HD Axle/Hub from bicycle-engines.com a while back. I got it laced up with 10 gauge spokes by Wheelmaster and took it to the local bike shop to get a freewheel for the pedal side (the hub doesn't come with one).

    Nothing fit. I tried another bike shop. Nothing fit. Tried a third bike shop. Nothing fit. The threads are close, but jam after a couple turns. The drum for the drum brake fits fine on the left and right side, so I know the threads are in good shape.

    I checked the grubee site. It says the threads are 35x1. Unfortunately, this doesn't exist. There is I.S.O. = 34.92 x 1.048 mm
    as well as Brittish = 34.80 x 1.058 mm and the far less common French = 34.7 x 1 mm.

    I sent messages to bicycle-engines.com, and grubee. Don Grube responded with "It is 35x1" and the folks at bicycle-engines.com told me they've never had a problem before and sent me to another bike shop which has yet to respond to my messages.

    Has anyone successfully screwed a freewheel onto one of these hubs? If so, can you tell me what kind of threads this thing has?

    Any help would be great!

    Thanks!

    Kevin
     

  2. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Wow. This is a surprise to me. I just took a freewheel I had sitting around and screwed it on mine. I never even knew there were different threads.
     
  3. Why doesn't this hub come with a pedal side freewheel? Is it the freewheel left hub btw?
     
  4. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Strange...i put a single speed freewheel on my hub & it went on perfect.
    Something sounds wrong with your hub thread.
     
  5. klassard

    klassard Member

    I agree. There must be something wrong with the thing. Maybe they make different threads for different markets. For example, in China, where the things are made, I imagine there are more metric and maybe even French threads than ISO. Perhaps I got one that was intended for another geographic area by mistake. This is insanely frustrating. Having the holes drilled out and laced up by wheelmaster wasn't cheap. Even if I get bicycle-engines.com to swap the hub out, I'll have to get the thing re-drilled. AAAARRRGH!!!
     
  6. klassard

    klassard Member

    It is the hub with the freewheel for the engine on the left (that freewheel and sprocket came with the hub). On the right, there are threads to put a pedal freewheel, which doesn't come with the hub. The problem is that no pedal freewheels that I can locate fit the thing. Oddly enough, I have a freewheel from a chinese electric scooter that fits perfectly, but it doesn't have bicycle chain teeth. Hence, I think the threads are some odd foreign specification that found its way into birddog distributing's stock by accident.
     
  7. klassard

    klassard Member

    I gave Jeremy at bicycle-engines a call today. I was told that he is their technical expert. He told me that it is normal for freewheels to get stuck on their hubs and that I should just chain them up and pedal them to force them on. Unfortunately, this solution damages the threads if they aren't correct.

    I've confirmed today that the threads are not I.S.O. threads. I took a freewheel from a Chinese electric scooter and tried it. It went on like butter. Unfortunately, it didn't have bike teeth. So I ordered one from this site - http://www.scooterparts4less.com/web_electric/freewheel_hub.htm

    It came in the mail today. It also went on like butter.

    Here's the clincher:

    The Chinese electric scooter freewheels don't fit on any of my normal bike hubs, but they fit perfectly on the Grubee axle. My other normal freewheels from my regular bikes are completely interchangeable with any of my hubs EXCEPT the Grubee.

    The Grubee hub must have some kind of non-standard thread that is shared by Chinese scooter hardware and not by bicycle freewheels.

    This means that either the 100's of people that bicycle-engines.com says buys their hubs are forcing freewheels on that don't fit and inadvertently ruining their threads or the hub I received was an anomaly that got shipped to bicycle-engines.com by mistake and the majority of their hubs do in fact have ISO threads and I was just unlucky.

    Now, I have a freewheel that works but I am still hosed because I also bought a disk brake adapter to replace the band brake on the hub. The adapter has I.S.O. threads and will therefore not fit on the Grubee hub. If anyone is using a two-sided hub that actually has normal threads, this thing would be an awesome disk brake solution: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-...c-Brake-Adapter-for-145mm-OLN-98-TD-12727.htm
     
  8. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    It is normal to force freewheels on this hub(or any other hub) but ONLY at the end of their threading cycle,not the beginning.
    Glad u found a solution though.........pity if u had to re-do that entire wheel.
     
  9. klassard

    klassard Member

    I suppose if the builds always went as planned, it wouldn't be as much fun when I finally got them up and running :)

    I just wish the folks at bicycle-engines.com were a little more receptive to what I was trying to explain. It may well be that the hub I received was an odd ball and not what normally comes out of the factory where they get them. I'd even be happy to send them the thing along with the freewheel I found so they could check it out. If the bulk of their hubs use the Chinese threads, it may ease some frustrations of potential customers if they disclose this upfront. If not, I'd sure like to swap mine out for a normal-thread version.
     
  10. Hi Kevin, It could be possible that the chrome on this hub ended up being extra thick, I know I certainly had a HUGE amount of trouble drilling the holes to accept the #9 gauge spokes (took me all day Literally), Maybe the threaded erea could be wire brushed on a electric grinder with a wire wheel to slightly bring the diameter of the threads down to where the sprocket threads correctly ? just a thought, please keep me in the loop as I'll do everything in my power to get you through this issue.. thanks and good luck ! Jim........
     
  11. TWalker

    TWalker Guest

    I had the same trouble, yours is not an oddball. In fact the wheel never got built because of this. My shimano 7 gear freewheel threaded halfway on and I think I could force it but I havnt gotten around to completing that project.

    I too am miffed at bicycle-engines.com for not telling me beforehand.

    My single gear freewhel threads fine but my multi-gear shimano does not....and I dont want a single geared bike!
     
  12. mabman

    mabman Member

    DT-Swiss has a USA distributor located in Grand Junkyard, CO.. http://www.dtswiss-us.com/. Might save on shipping if they have it.
     
  13. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    wow -- that's really someTHING new klassard !!!!

    hey klassard -- found this -- your thread to be very interesting -- to say the least

    the getting older mountain man has been thinking way back
    to when I owned a bicycle shop
    we NEVER ran into or HEARD anything about said thread sizing differences
    all sprokets we sold and installed -- never had a problem -- remembered anyway

    sorry this happened to you our motor bikeing brother
    would have CONFUSED THE HECK OUT OF ME !!!!!

    you have done your homework (( very good )) I am impressed !!!

    you more than earned it -- happy long riding on that thing
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2009
  14. klassard

    klassard Member

    TWalker, thanks for letting me know I'm not losing my mind! If you get the freewheel from the site I mentioned earlier, it fits great on the Grubee hub.

    Thanks for the tip, Mabman.
    Thanks for the props, Mountainman :) I'll post some pics when I get the build completed.
     
  15. redpiper777

    redpiper777 Member

    Had the same problem

    It happened to me too. I was not able to find a 35X1 on the planet...I was able to get mine to thread on by using a wire brush to clean some of the shotty Chinese chrome of the threads and a little grease...I bought a freewheel wrench and slowly, about a 1/16" at a time, worked it back and forth until I got it on...It seemed that it would only go on smoothly for about 4 or 5 turns and then lock up....I'm not really sure but I was kind of guessing the threads were cut with differing heights at the the edges you know, because of the "extremely high tech factory full of machines chucked full of the newest technology, with a quality control department unmatched in human history". Sorry I went away for a second...My other thought was that maybe the hub is slightly out of round...Anyway, to make a long story short I got it on....Good luck...By the way I dont have the size with me here but I bought a standard BMX freewheel from a local bike shop....
     
  16. biketec

    biketec Member

    I'm going to have to agree with you here on this one, I Have been reading too many post that are all the same. People saying it went right on and others who are having a difficult time, So .....

    Here is what I have found.
    I have one on my bike I had no problem with it at all.

    I decided to go out back and look at a few hubs, and use my spare sprocket I purchased from bikeworldusa .com as a sample to possibly stock for people who cant seem to find the right part( Only problem is there's 3-4 sizes teeth wise ) I will get Aprox. size soon to clear the air. Anyhoo I think the master is on the right track some went on and some were half way or 3/4 and looking at the threads they look like they got a little carried away with the chroming or maybe they hang them from the other end and it puddled or got a bit thicker on the threads.
    Realistically I would think they would be re-threaded after the chroming process to clean them up but again, TIC ( This is China )

    I would have to suggest the wire wheel and a bit of anti-seize or any kind of lube to help the thread cleaning process and work it back and fourth almost like taping a hole.

    As for the rest of the issues its a universal hub, may slip on a bike, may have to spread the frame, or use some extra washers its universal and may require some simple modifying. But all in all I love mine and the fact I don't have to get my rim re trued every 6 months from the spoke mounts its straight and really improves over all performance.
     
  17. klassard

    klassard Member

    I don't think it is the chrome

    I would agree with wheelmaster except that the brake hub that comes with the Grubee axle threads perfectly on both sides, as do the Chinese threaded freewheels I have from electric scooters. Yet, the brake hub and Chinese freewheels don't fit any other normal hub I own. Add this to the fact that my normal freewheels don't fit the Grubee axle, and I think it stands to reason that the thread pitch is slightly off. Especially since there are three different thread picthes within a fraction of a millimeter of each other.

    Let's assume that the chrome is the problem: If I have a Chinese scooter freewheel that fits the Grubee hub, that would mean that the threads on that freewheel are cut deep enought to accept the excess chrome, right? By logical extension, wouldn't that mean that I should be able to put that Chinese freewheel on any other bicycle hub that doesn't have chrome? In fact, the freewheel that fits the Grubee should be even more loose on the other bike hubs. Unfortunately, this is not the case. When I try the Chinese scooter freewheel on a normal bike hub, it gets stuck after a few threads. This is because the threads are off.

    If the folks at bicycle-engines.com have found a Grubee hub in their stock that accepts standard freewheels without forcing, I'd like to exchange mine. The only problem is that I've already had mine tapped out to except 10 gauge spokes.
     
  18. Nuttsy

    Nuttsy Member

    Sorry I got here too late to help. I was going to suggest chasing the threads with an old freewheel. Seems if it got as far as 1/2 - 3/4 on and then froze up, it should be able to get the rest of the way with a cleaning up ritual as described above by others. Although, with the SLIGHT variations in thread from 35-34.XX per inch, I may be off base on that too.

    This is the only thing I regret not putting on my CVT build and will definately be on my next one regardless of the threading difficulty. (IT WILL SUCCUMB!)

    Am curious though, if anyone knows the spoke length for this hub on a 26" balloon tire cruiser rim? OR perhaps someone could give me a hub diameter? Maybe the Wheelmaster can shed some light???
    WC
     
  19. biketec

    biketec Member

    BTW I spoke with Aaron today and he informed me that the sprockets I had been getting are 16T ISO ( International Standards organization ) a company that is formed to prevent this sort of thing, because before there were individual bike company's making odd ball stuff so they came to play and said lets do this and we will all do it like this. Not positive on this but it was what I was told by the bike guru and what I use on my hubs so I hope this will help.
     
  20. klassard

    klassard Member

    Biketec, I'm sure that you have been getting ISO freewheels from Aaron. However, the hub I received does not have ISO threads. Extra chrome does not explain what is happening. To illustrate what I am talking about, I put a short presentation together:

    http://www.lassard.com/hub/

    If this doesn't explain what I am talking about, nothing will .
     
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