Whizzer Automatic clutches

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by Quenton Guenther, May 26, 2008.

  1. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Everyone,
    I received 51 emails and a couple of personal messages while I was at Dawson Springs, KY, and 39 of them were about the automatic clutch. It is much easier for me to simply write a post to answer all the questions.
    My NE powered Whizzer out ran EVERY Whizzer [except one] entered in the drag races. Let me say that again, almost EVERY Whizzer entered, and the only one I didn't out run was Kenny Thomas's because I also rode his modified Whizzer during the event. It wasn't possible to run the 2 bikes against each other because I rode both of them in the races [hard to race myself].
    MY NE powered Whizzer just rewrote the history books, because it easily out paced the OHV Whizzers during the event. Let me mention this once again, the OHV Whizzers entered could not beat my "flat head" motor.
    My Whizzer was using the STOCK Whizzer automatic clutch, while others used, manual, comet torque converters, go cart clutches, and vintage automatic clutches. My Whizzer managed to "spin" the rear tire and throw dirt several feet behind me, and started to lift the front wheel as the tire found traction.
    Having said all that, remember the Whizzer automatic clutch is only guaranteed if using on a completely stock Whizzer motorbike [guess I voided my warranty].
    I will now attempt to answer all the questions sent my way. The clutch should have several washers included to mount the clutch to the arm. It should have a large washer to hold the two sections of the clutch together. For a short time Whizzer used a large [rubber type] flexable washer to hold the halves together, and was not a spacer to hold the belt guard away from the clutch as one owner suggested. And if the large washer isn't used the clutch halves can drift apart. The spacers are used to align the clutch & belts. The spacers must be used, or the bearings will rub against the clutch arm or the large washer will spin with the clutch [not a good plan]. Use the correct amount of spacers[washers] between the large washer and the small outer bearing, so that the clutch doesn't touch the large washer, use a washer between the clutch and the arm to space the clutch away from the raised section of the arm. If the belts are not running straight, it is sometimes necessary to grind a small portion of the raised section of the clutch mounting arm to move the clutch slightly inward. Don't get carried away grinding the raised area on the arm so that it weakens it. I usually grind approx 1/8" [no more] from the arm to aid belt alignment.
    When the clutch is enguaged only the two smaller bearings are in use, and the clutch spins as one unit. When running slow the clutch uses the inner bearing race and the needle bearings. As long as the needle bearings have grease [I use hi speed wheel bearing grease] the clutch should last a long time.
    Many of the emails expressed concern about the way the clutch enguages, I just don't know what to say about that anymore. I have tried every known version of the automatic clutch, made by several different companies, and I like the Whizzer version best of all. Some of the clutches I have tested, "lock" all of a sudden, and tend to drag the motor down, but it appears many expect that type of enguagement. The Whizzer clutch "slides" into lock, and allows the motor to maintain its RPM level, but it does lock completely [ask all who lost at the drag races against the stock Whizzer clutch].
    Many asked if it is normal for the clutch to slip during the break-in period.
    The answer is "yes", and I will gladly explain how to speed up the break-in process. When the clutch is new, and the shoes & drum are getting to know each other, only 15% of the shoe surface is touching the drum. As the break-in process continues more of the shoe surface will contact the hub, but I don't like to wait [approx. 50 miles]. I am going to tell you how I do it, but check with your dealer to make sure my method doesn't void your warranty. After the first 10 to 15 miles, I apply the brakes, rev the motor for a few moments. I then remove the clutch, and using a Dremel grinder, I remove all the "glazed" areas on the shoes. I install the clutch and repeat the process several times untill 90 to 95% of the shoes are contacting the drum. The end result is a clutch that "locks" completely at approx 2200 RPMs.
    Because of my mis-understanding of the Whizzer clutch warranty, I will no longer offer the clutch for sale with a warranty. If used on a non-stock Whizzer motor the warranty is void, and I have no way of knowing if used on a stock Whizzer or not. I am convinced the clutch is a great unit and works better on a modified motor, but at $236.00 I can't afford to cover the warranty. I will also state "I have never had a Whizzer clutch fail on any of my bikes, ever".
    I have developed a special modification for the Whizzer clutch [after it is out of warranty], and hope to offer it soon to enhance the low speed operation of the clutch.
    I hope I answered every question, if not, simply ask again.
    Have fun,
    Quenton
     

  2. peter nap

    peter nap Member

    Thank you Quenton!
     
  3. wes

    wes Guest

    Great info Quenton! I'll try taking the glazed areas off to get that faster break in.
    If anyone has my problem of a bearing sleeve coming loose, here's my fix: I pulled the loose sleeve up as far as i could, and cut 3 slots in the outer sleeve on the exposed edge with a dremel cutoff. tapped it back down and carefully brazed the cut areas, then with even more care cleaned up the brazed areas. you don't want to get braze in the lip where the washer sits. Needless to say you have to remove the sealed bearings to do this. I feel confident i won't have any more trouble now.
     
  4. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Wes,
    Sorry, but I am not quite sure how you did the fix. Did the bearing sleeve that the needle bearings ride on become loose? If so, I have never seen a loose bearing sleeve. And when you referred to the sealed bearings, are you talking about the 2 smaller bearings that the mounting bolt rides on? Guess my brain just isn't up to its normal speed today, so help me out if you can and try to explain your "fix" again if you have the time.
    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  5. wes

    wes Guest

    Quenton,

    Yes, unfortunately it was the bearing sleeve that came loose from apparently a press fit. the sealed bearings i referred to are the smaller outer bearings. i made the slots on the sleeve about 1/8 wide or less and about that deep. used a small braze wire and some delicate technique! you can't do this unless you are able to pull the sleeve up. i am using a nylon washer i cut out just to just fit around the outer seal. on top of that i use a stainless fender washer that covers past the seal area. i might add that against the outer sealed bearing i use one of the stock steel thrust washers and then the washer that fits in the lip. this gives it all just a small amount of play it needs. really the nylon washer should be fixed to the outer fender washer. wish there was a really good mechanical manual with these engine systems, sorta like a chilton's or such. they are good enough to warrant having this level of manual. hope this helps. wes. btw, i have another 50 miles on this after the fix and the bike is really coming into itself, i basically kick start it on the stand or pedal start it so easy and it really goes, i have to hold back, and i get so many comments. sometimes other strange people even know its a whizzer!
    on another subject, i can draw out the wiring for no battery lighting with just the regulator if anybody is interested. i can't see why anyone would need the key ignition, battery, or ac/dc flasher unless you want turn signals, of course. if you don't want it stolen, lock it up. it's just so appealing to me to not have the extra stuff. i have hi/low beam, kill switch, brake light and running light. can't stay off it.. w.
     
  6. No Battery lighting

    Wes can you please draw this wiring diagram for me. It does sound appealing. That's all the lights I need too.
     
  7. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Just a quick note about wiring. If you don't use the battery or ignition switch it will be necessary to connect the red wire and the gray wire [used to connect one side of the horn] together to supply 12V to the brake light switch system.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  8. bill green

    bill green Member

    Hi Quenton just went threw your clutch break in and it worked great . Thanks for the info... Bill Green
     
  9. I looked into my 2005 (Whizzer USA). Ne Auto clutch to see why it stopped working. The shoes are wafer thin. That has got to be it.
    Is there a rebuilder around or do I just buy new ones with a core charge for the old shoes. Is this a service NAPA would offer? Or do I have to chase these puppies down?
    Thanks guys, I'm in the dark and in the boonies
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  10. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    The thin shoes aren't the problem. The clutch was designed to work with metal to metal contact and the material on the shoes is to help "seat" the clutch shoes into the hub.

    My Whizzer that pulls "wheelies" only has a very thin layer of material on the shoes.

    In order for the clutch to work correctly, 2 items need to be in order, first the bearing sleeve must be replaced with a Rockwell rated 58 sleeve, and the shoes must be made to conture the inside of the hub.

    The sleeve can be replaced for approx. $115.00 [my rate], or you can order a sleeve and have a machine shop install it. The sleeve is 38.5 MM long, I.D. of 25 MM, and the O.D. of 30 MM, and must be rated at Rockwell 58.


    Best way to mate the shoes inside the hub is to place front wheel against a barrier [tree, house, etc] and open the throttle untill the clutch gets hot. Take clutch apart and sand the glazed spots on each shoe [use a Dremel with a sanding drum]. Do this about 3 times and the shoes will contact the hub more and slip less.


    Have fun,
     
  11. I got a call today from Debbie. She will look into some replacement shoes for me. Is there any advantage to running thin shoes in there? Will I get the same end result if I just ride it to seat the shoes? Should I use locktite on the mounting bolt? I am still a little confused about the washer/ bushing/spacer sequence. I'll have another read.
    Quenton, can I send you my clutch for a look see and needed upgrades/repairs/estimate?
    It's a good feeling having this whole Whizzer/Motorbike community and friends to help a guy out
     
  12. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I find the original shoes with the thin contact material works best as it ends up with more contact area. The later unit have thicker shoes, however they aren't as wide and less contact area.

    If the clutch hasn't been upgraded, the bearing sleeve will self-destruct and destroy the one way bearing [expensive]. The original bearing sleeve can be cut with an average tool bit and is VERY soft.

    You can take your time in getting the shoes to mate with the insdie of the hub, will just require taking the cluth apart much more often to conture the shoes.

    The spacers must allow the clutch to turn freely without touching the boss on the arm. Normally the brass spacer has the small edge towards the clutch bearing between the arm and clutch. The additional spacers normally go between the large outer washer and the bearing.

    Have fun,
     
  13. Thank you very much again Quenton!
    My 2005 clutch (upgraded from manual clutch) has about 300 miles on it. I find it strange the shoes were worn down as much as there are after 3 hundred miles. I just rode it for 50 miles and then I thought it was worth the money after it was broke in. Just hit the gas and it would hook right up. I can tell by looking at the 3 shoes they are making 100% contact. They are wafer thin but worn very evenly.
    My thinking was, great, I caught it in time before it gouged the drum.
    The clutch has never been upgraded. I didn’t know there was an upgrade for it. The clutch turns freely with the front belt driving it, but I have no power to the rear wheel?
    What do you think I need? I think I need someone to upgrade and fix my clutch. Know anybody that does that kind of work?
    Thanks, Jim
     
  14. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I usually upgrade several clutches every week. Upgraded over 10 last week.
    Contact me via eamil or PM for details.

    Have fun,
     
  15. I will do just that after the 1st of the month and
    Thank you,
    Jim
     
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