Whizzer coil & spark plug

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Traveler,

I have an old spec sheet on the "H" motor and it states to set the points gap to .033". All the later information details the use of the light.

Have fun,

 

[Nolan]

whizzer Problems..

so I got it all together this weekend but ran into some problems.. first of all its really hard to pedal, I have been unable to get it started on flat ground so I keep flooding it. When I get it started it runs for a couple of blocks then starts to loose power, slow down and run really rough(maybe just because of the low rpm's) and then dies. I've tried to stop the bike and keep the engine running but it does the same thing. Could it not be getting enough gas? I made my own tank and the lines have to run up hill for about a half inch, but it didn't really seem like it was inhibiting flow very much.
When I test the spark by pulling it out and setting it against the engine I only see visible sparks occasionally, but if touch it I can feel a shock every revolution, but they don't really hurt that bad.
I bought the engine off of ebay two months back, he said it had been rebuilt and was running fine, first and last time i rode a whizzer was about two years ago and it seemed to pedal really easy and start up right away.
I have considered the problems mentioned in this thread, but I'm still not sure what it is.

 

[WZ507]

Whizzer problems

Nolan,

First off, you have a very nice looking bike.

Regarding your drivability, here's a couple suggestions. You need a center stand so you can peddle it in place, start it, and tinker with it while the engine has a light load on it on the stand. Because the front chain ring is large you have a high gear ratio, and the high ratio will make it challenging to peddle fast on the road.

With the plug out of the engine and grounded, when you peddle it on the stand (800-1500 rpm) the spark needs to be bright and constant, rather than the weak and sporadic spark you're getting. The fact that you can't get it to idle is very possibly indicative of weak spark at low engine speed. I'd start by getting a new ignition module and throwing away the points and condenser. Then you've eliminated those two components as well as point setting/timing etc. If the flywheel has good magnetic strength you should see nice crisp blue spark when turning it at 1000 rpm. Be sure to set the coil/flywheel air gap as tight as possible (0.006-0.007"), as this will enhance the spark strength. Whizzer ignitions are decent systems, but they are certainly no Briggs and Stratton, where you can simply roll the flywheel modestly by hand and get a bright blue flash.

If the fuel level in the tank is well above the carb bowl you should have no issue feeding the carb adequately regardless of the gas line layout. I assume if you disconnect the fuel line from the carb, keep it in the same relative position, and turn on the petcock, gas flows freely and constantly (tank is vented and will flow a full quart+ without slowing down?). Is the float level setting appropriate? If yes to these questions, fuel supply should not be an issue.

Keep us posted - we're always interested in learning through your outcome.

 

[Nolan]

Thanks for the info.
I do have a rear drop stand for it, but haven't installed it since I could barley get it started even going down a hill. I know the gear ratio is pretty high, and I have a larger skip tooth rear cog I was planing on installing, but it seems harder than it should be even for a fit 20 year old. It may be because I have to run an extra pulley to tension the rear belt (not in the picture) which may be causing extra friction. As for the spark I had a feeling the coil was bad, I just didn't want to believe it because I now know I over payed $150 for the engine.
($850 with tank, sheave, belts and mounting brackets, but sheave is ****, tank ended up being dented and rusty, belts were all the wrong size and I had to make all new mounts anyways) So another $100 is really gettin me down. Probably not the best way for a broke college kid to be spending his money.

and the flywheel seems to have fairly good magnetic strength, I don't have anything to compare it with, so its hard to tell. I can put a wrench on it and it takes a little bit of effort to get it off.
-Nolan

 

[WZ507]

Whizzer Problem

Did you measure the resistance of the coil as described previously and verify that it has the requisite resistance?

Regarding your lack of spark, and assuming the coil is good (has to have continuity from the primary lead to the high tension lead – typically in the range of 3000 to 5000 ohm resistance).

Then inspect the coil case and be sure it is free of cracks, dings, etc to assure that it isn’t leaking? If the coil has the correct resistance and the case is sound it should work fine. If you have the bike on a center stand it is easy to verify by pedaling whether the ignition is sound or not. Sometimes if the case is leaky you can hear the spark leakage even though you never see a spark at the plug - either way, you’ve then diagnosed your coil issue.

Regarding hard peddling, with the decompessor activated or the sparkplug removed (should be very similar resistance with either situation) you should be able to spin the motor effortlessly by rotating the rear wheel by hand. You should also be able to lay on the seat and peddle the bike with your hands very fast. If you can’t peddle it easily figure out where the friction source is and remedy it.

Please keep us apprised of your progress.

PS - did you read the earlier post in this thread about magnetic strength of the flywheel and how does your flywheel measure up?

I use a crude test to assess the relative strength of the flywheel magnet. With the flywheel removed from the engine, stand it on edge with the magnetic segments facing upward. Mate the e-frame of the coil to the flywheel magnets so that two legs of the e-frame are centered on the magnetic segments. If the flywheel magnet is at full strength, you can effortlessly lift the flywheel with the e-frame. If you struggle to lift the flywheel the magnet is weak and could benefit from a recharge.

 

[RdKryton]

When you have what may be questionable spark, the very first thing to try is a new plug. I have tried to chase down problems with spark only to find out the plug was bad. Frustrating to say the least. Even if it looks fine it's good to take one variable out of the equation. Good luck. Oh BTW very nice looking build.

Jim

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Nolan, Great looking Whizzer.

The ignition module isn't part of the magneto, but a replacement for the points & condenser. Depending on the position of the magnets in the flywheel the electronic module may need to be reversed. If the magnets in the flywheel are weak the electronic module will help anyway because it requires less power to operate.

I use the electronic module in every vintage Whizzer I own.
Have fun,

 

[Nolan]

Thanks everyone for the help, I tinkered with it more yesterday, switched the front sprocket from 26 skiptooth to 22, which helped quite a bit but it still seems like theres some resistance, I had it on the stand and it fired up right away but only ran for 15-20 seconds before it died, after the engine got some heat to it the resistance seemed greater. checked oil levels and they seemed fine. I also cleaned the spark plug up (it was black and sooty, as was the compression chamber before I mounted the engine) Which got me a better spark than before but not one as bright as the 80cc engine i had on it before. I'm getting a new plug today so I'll see how that works. I attempted to get the flywheel off to test the magnets, I got the bolt out and tried to slide it off, does it just take more effort or is there a secondary lock on it?, I didn't want to pry on anything for fear of breaking something.
And Quenton, I am interested in getting the electronic module for it, how much do they run? Some one mentioned getting two anyways.
-Nolan

 

[RdKryton]

Electronic Ignition Module

If Quenton doesn't have any you can get one at Memory Lane Classics.
http://www.memorylane-classics.com/
It is the last entry on the motor parts page. Here is a picture of the module.

Jim

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Noland,

The flywheel is a tapered fit. I often use a wedge [wood] and place it between the case and the flywheel on the front side and gently tap the wedge with a hammer. It is important to consider the following............If you completely remove the flywheel bolt and the flywheel "pops" loose, how much damage would result when the flywheel hits the floor?

Simply loosen the flywheel bolt several truns, but don't completely remove it during the process. If you use the wedge from the front side the ignition system can be left intact.

I would consider a new plug, electronic module, and checking the adjustable main jet. Most often the main jet setting is 3/4 turn out. The original manual states the following "turn screw clockwise until it seats [lightly] and back out 3/4 turn."

It might be wise to note the current location of the main jet setting, screw clockwise until it seats and count the number of turns so you will know where it is currently set.

98% of the vintage Whizzers I work on have the carburetor set way off and run poorly.

Have fun,