Whizzer NE high compression heads....

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by bobco, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. bobco

    bobco New Member

    Does anyone know where I can purchase one of these for a NE engine that I don't need to roll into my equity line of credit? Or should I do a Pro-E model of what would be an ideal design and go and make a cope and drag and cast them myself....I've exhausted all efforts.....Thanks! :(
     

  2. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi bobco,

    Here is the story.

    I have a box full of special heads for the NE motor [I am sure the largest collection in America]. Almost all of them cost me over $200.00 each.

    Because the NE motor can be modified to easily travel above 45 MPH, most don't need the better head.

    Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?

    I remember as a teenager, that my '55 chevy would go really fast from all the modifications I did to the motor, but I also remember reaching a certain level, and to go a little faster cost a lot of money. This is also true with the NE motor, a small investment could take it to a certain level, but to go the extra mile costs a lot.

    I doubt you will find a quality head for less than $200.00, because there isn't a large market, and the optional heads are all custom made in small quantities. I have tried many times to find someone to produce the head for under $100.00, but didn't succeed.

    Everytime I have special heads made it must be in quanities of at least 3, and right now I don't know of 3 owners looking for them, and I sure don't need more in my collection.

    If you want to try to cast your own, I will happily supply the needed information on combustion chamber design.

    I have test heads with over 165 pounds of compression. I still have the first WC-1 head I had welded and re-worked to fit the NE motor [cheapest version of a performance head]. I have heads that were completely welded shut and a new pattern carved out, but the welding was less than stellar. I might possible let a few of them go, but would at least need my original cost to do so. I do not weld and had to pay local welders [ouch] to make the requested changes on each head. In my area if a welder even looks at anything aluminum the minimum charge was $65.00. As you can see speed costs.

    If you want to contact me I will itemize my cost & supply pictures of any heads that would be of interest to you. Please understand that many were prototype heads and although work well, are what I consider "crude".

    Have fun,
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  3. bobco

    bobco New Member

    To keep up with the boys running at Portland, 45mph won't cut it. I need to be able to run 55-60mph. And there's one gent in particular who I'd like to out run.....more speed please.. :grin5:

    I sent you an email asking for your itemized cost and pics of the ones you'd part with....

    How much for the 165lbs. one?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  4. Wow

    That head that you have is already one of Q's better works. I'll be waiting to see / hear the difference.
     
  5. bobco

    bobco New Member

    That may be true Dave, but I want even more thumping power! :cool:
     
  6. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi bobco,

    Just get out your checkbook! I will sell you one of my personal prototype heads [only 3 produced]. The intake valve pocket will need to be increased in size, and the head will need to be milled to arrive at the desired compression ratio. I will make it available to you at my cost, but I will warn you, it will exceed $225.00. If I were tying to compete with one of the OHV Whizzers, it is the head I would select, and used a very similar version when I competed with OHV motors over the last several years. All of the record setting flat head Whizzers use a very similar combustion chamber. Roger Brophy used a similar head design when he set the record at Bonneville. The super motor I am building for a friend will also sport this style head.
    This style head added 30% more power when used on a vintage motor with larger valves. The combustion chamber was designed and tested by me to fit the NE motor, and only one is in the hands of another "speed freak" [on the west coast].

    One additional comment you may find interesing, there were a small quanity of "decent" heads put on the last versions of the NE motor that can be re-worked to produce good power. In fact I just finished re-working one in my shop last night. I used this style head on my dirt drag Whizzer last year to compete in the "stock" appearing class.

    Have fun,
     
  7. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    I have a good idea what head you are referring too Quenton. hehe

    Jim
     
  8. bobco

    bobco New Member

    I'll take it! You can email me the cost if you'd like and then I'll reply where to send. Thanks! :grin5:
     
  9. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Jim,

    You are most likely correct about the head........

    Your tag line
    "Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist", makes me want to post the location of my favorite song.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0
    Have fun,
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  10. bobco

    bobco New Member

    Quenton, I purchased a late '07 NE-5 bike. Any chance this model would have this other desirable head you mentioned? I guess I should pull the engine and see. Any possibility of getting a picture of this 'limited edition' head to compare to mine?
     
  11. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Bobco,

    It is possible the late 07 may have the limited production head, but needs a lot of work to become a powerhouse. Does the motor have the aluminum intake spacer? I would suggest you PM me as soon as you get the motor apart, because I have several important modifications you should do right away. If you log many miles on the motor one of the upgrades may not help you. Can you share the current mileage on the 07?

    This post isn't intended to "bash" anyone, any company, or any vendor.

    Have fun,
     
  12. bobco

    bobco New Member

    Hi Quenton,

    Actually I'm in the process of doing two bikes. One for my wife to cruise next me and then my thumper older Schwinn Cruiser that I converted with a newer NE motor kit. My Schwinn will get Zomby Builder's engine put on it once I get your hi-compression head. I want to have a bike that will run in the middle to the front of the pack on the organized rides at Portland, and have some reserve power for road racing. The '07 only has 100 miles on it. It has two phenolic spacers with a tan fiberglass or some other material between them with a 1/2" hole in the middle, no aluminum spacer. I'll pull the engine this weekend for more details...

    Thanks! :grin5:
     
  13. Baverian

    Baverian Member

    ? for Quinton

    What is the compression ratio on a stock NE and what is it on some of your heads?
    Baverian
     
  14. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Bob,

    I won't post why, but there are some really good things about your motor compaired to others. However there are a few things you should upgrade right away on your '07 motor. One of the upgrades you ordered from me today. When you remove the head, contact me and I will tell you which version you have. Don't forget the head on the motor from Zomby will be a good choice to keep when looking for additional power.

    This post isn't intended to "bash" anyone, any company, or any vendor.

    Have fun,
     
  15. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Baverian,
    I don't know the ratios, and have always used a compression guage. My rebuilt vintage motors tested at 100 ~ 102 pounds on the "H" & "J" motors and 112 ~115 pounds on the later "300" and up series. The compression ratio was 6.32 X 1 on the "H" & "J", and 6.75 X 1 on the later motors.

    The piston stops short [is about 1/8" lower than the top of the cylinder]on the new generation motors, and the combustion chamber is much deeper and larger, therefore a common compression test yeilds number around 80 ~ 90 pounds. I have boosted the compression to 165 pounds on a test motor, but it was hard to start. I find the sweet spot on the new edition motors to be 120 ~ 125 pounds.

    There was an OHV Whizzer at Dawson Springs, KY last year and I think Johnny [the owner] told me his compression ratio was around 20 X 1.

    The latest Whizzer newsletter has an article about compression ratios, and if I find time, I will try to figure some of my motors ratios. I already know the CC volume of the head, and the CC volume of the cylinder, but will need to figure the volume of the area above the piston [between the top of the piston and the top edge of the cylinder]. to make it accurate.

    Hope this answered your questions.

    Have fun,
     
  16. Compression

    The early NE that is on my Screech really screams. Did you test it's comp. Q? How much should it be? I have never tested it. It looks just like Bobcos on the outside, but after seeing your collection I realize that they could be distant cousins. Which gauge would be most accurate? To measure that thing....

    IMG_0974.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2009
  17. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Zomby,
    Here is the story on the different heads used on the NE motor.
    The very early motors sported a head with same pattern used on the WC-1 motors, but had the island removed. Removing the island was originally a design used by "Weber" in the late 1940s, and increased the flow considerably. Sadly the early NE heads had a really deep chamber and a lot of deep tool marks where the island once resided. After a lot of work to smooth the chamber and mill .065" ~ .085" from the bottom, the head suddently became a serious contender. I am not sure of the reason, but Whizzer USA suddently re-designed the head and offered what I consider the "worst" combustion chamber design ever attached to a flat head motor in the last 100 years. Sadly the majority of the NE motors used this head, and I would guess approx. 90% of the heads were this version. I was able to re-work and mill this version to make it much better. This version of the head is easy to identify by looking at the intake valve pocket. I will include photos of both, and you can easily see the difference.
    In the very last production NE motors a different combustion chamber design was employed [I could suggest where the idea came from, but why bother] and after a little TLC really upscaled the power output.
    Now the facts, the early NE head [most likely the one you have] produced speeds in excess of 70 MPH on a dyno. The heads used on the late 2005 to mid 2007 had problems finding the 60 MPH speeds on the dyno, and the very last production heads once again bumped the 70 MPH numbers. All the heads I tested were milled & modified, but the early 2005 NE & the late 2007/early 2008 were powerful, and also very rare!

    Most of the first edition heads when milled produced 120 to 125 pounds of compression. The midrange heads when milled & modified supplied an average of 110 pounds. And the rare final edition once again produced the 120 to 125 pounds of compression.

    I use a "Craftsman" compression guage. I had to special order the adapter to fit the smaller 10 MM spark plug hole. It is important to open the throttle to wide open during the test.

    These comments aren't meant to "bash" any company, person, persons, or vendor.

    Have fun,
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  18. uncle_punk13

    uncle_punk13 Guest

    THAT bike is unbelievable! I liked his Briggs V-2 Cushman as well...
    I just couldn't believe his O.H.V. Whizz though! It's as bad @** as Kenny's DoubleWhiz... :)
    Johnny was one of the nicest guys I've ever met as well. Something about M/B's eh? We should steal Honda's old slogan...;-)
    Oh, Wait, this was about compression ratios... Sorry for that...
     
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