Wind and Overkill

Discussion in 'Travelling, Commuting & Safety' started by WisdomWarlord, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    I got my hands on a Honda GX110 4 stroke engine, 107cc and 4 stroke, I have been scheming ways to put it on my bike and still make my bike a ridable bicycle. If I didn't want pedals, I would have a motorcycle. But, on the other hand, I thought that big engine might be overkill. I don't want high speed, 35 is fine. That's about all u can average in city streets anyway!

    I have been going to the gym this past winter because I knew my body was not ready to bicycle commute like I want to. Well, now it is....sorta.
    I went for a ride yesterday, 13 miles round trip. Not bad, and I could walk comfortably after. I easily could have gone double. But the wind! Steady at 12 and gusting to 25. That and a steep climb up and over a highway overpass reminded me of some things.

    Wind is a serious challenge!
    Hills are too.
    Hills and a head wind will test a mans commitment to the sport!

    My bike only has an underpowered meat motor on it right now. In the wind I managed a 6.5 mph pace. I was pretty disheartened at that snails pace, since it was pretty flat after that first mile. On the way back, I managed 14 mph and was less tired at the end. So over half my horsepower was spend resisting the wind on the way there. Wow!

    So, that tells me that most of the time, a 107cc engine may very well be overkill, there will be times when it plus my meat motor will be lucky to be enough!

    So, if I want a daily driver, reliable and suitable for the terrain I come across, I will build what I have and do what it takes to keep the popo at bay.

    I have often wondered about these 50cc and under bikes. I can see how on a flat road with no wind they would be suitable, but in the real world, I just don't see myself putting up with the limits and problems an underpowered engine would bring. I am real glad I got beat up by the before I traded off my Honda engine.

    This bike of mine will be expected to go all over the country with me, on pedal power and engine, so durability and reliability are pretty high on my priority list. If the bike were strictly recreational, I would have a different view of the "legal" engine sizes. Not trying to dis anyone running them.
     

  2. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Air resistance in an upright riding position, even without wind, becomes an increasingly limiting factor after a certain speed is reached in cycling. However, IMO for motor assisted bicycles 50cc and under is plenty, it becomes more a matter appropriate gearing for a given task. It also happens to comply with legal standards in a majority of states. A well tuned bike that fits, is comfortable and functions well as a pedal bicycle to begin with is a huge plus.
     
  3. geebt48cc

    geebt48cc Member

    Wisdom, I really can relate! See, I'm 6' 6", 260, so that's pretty trying on these small cc's. If you add head-wind.................well, I think you know the rest of!! See, in normal weather here in SW Va, there are quite a few hills. Considering I've done quite a few mods on the 66cc, I run mid twenties to thirty+. Uno, the way I see it, it's got to be very confusing (funny) for people to see this big guy riding a little bike, but it's a blast when I keep the same pace as 90% of all the traffic around town. .................LOL, all until the wind really blows!~:ack2:
     

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  4. professor

    professor Active Member

    There is nothing more reliable than the honda but it requires fabrication work to fit it. To me, that engine with belt drive to the rear wheel (with the rear sheave being another wheel) like one of the guys here does, would be the simplest.
    As far as CCs- not an issue from what I see here.
    I have 2 bikes- 79cc and 212cc, both go a tad over 30 (flying on a bike) but most of the time run at less then 20.
     
  5. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Interesting opinion given what I understand to be the current legal status of gas motorized bikes in that state. For the purposes of instruction, I'm wondering if any other steps were taken to ready the bikes toward compliance for legal street use?
     
  6. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    Professor. That was my CB handle back in the day :)
    The more I look into it the more I am convinced the Honda is the right plan. Of course, I will have fun legally. I will find a way to not have to call it a motorcycle, but it will be a challenge. I got a good roll down a hill yesterday where I was able to do some high speed turns. At 30 it was very maneuverable, at 35 there was more resistance to a turn than I cared for, and at 40 I had to work hard to lean, and to straighten back up. Seems those big 26" wheels make real effective gyroscopes!
    That means that my bike will be governed and geared for under 30. Probably 29, which I am hoping will help keep it classified as a bicycle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  7. professor

    professor Active Member

    Happy- the regs here in NY are weird - 3 classes of mopeds (yes- mine is now a moped).
    All need lights and stop light. All are based on speed capability. All need to be registered.

    WW- find out the rules in Michigan before you begin to build.
    When you ride, imagine all car drivers are drunk, wear a safety vest (to be seen), helmet, gloves and ride with the appearance of being safe, the law will certainly notice and leave you alone.
     
  8. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    Yup professor, I have. They are ridiculous. Under 50cc, max 2HP, max 20mph. We all know 2HP is easy to hit without exceeding 49cc's, and many of us can pedal to speeds of 30+ on a flat road with no wind. How they came up with some of these rules escapes logic!
    If I have to register my bike as a motorcycle, I am prepared to do so. I hope I find myself in a confusion loop where they can't tell what it is and decide to call it a moped! I'll just have to see where it goes.
     
  9. photo245

    photo245 New Member

    49cc is the leagel limit in most states and no more than 30 miles an hour why would you wanna put a motor thats 107cc and exspect it to be street leagel dont people realize thats why we are being regulated like we are or banned out rite thats kinda not rite i use mine for transportation and cant afford to have mine banned come on people smarten up quit screwing it up for the rest of us ........
     
  10. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    Screwing what up? Did you happen to read the part about me being willing to register it as a motorcycle if that what it ends up taking? I read about all sorts of people here running illegal engines but trying to hide it, or making it look legal while it really isn't. Or people who run way past the legal speeds for a motorized bike. I'm not trying to hide anything, and I'm not trying to lie my way around the laws with some sneaky decal or serial number changes. THOSE people are the ones you need to cry to about "screwing it up for the rest of us" and stop whining on my thread!
     
  11. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    Lmao! So photo, you want to come cry about screwing it up for others? How does that 80cc red bat engine of yours run? I bet its got good acceleration. Now I did attend Detroit public schools and ain't no math magician, but I am pretty sure 80 is bigger than 49. What did you have to do to get your motorized bike properly registered as a motorcycle. Which it legally is, if that 80cc engine is installed on it. So, who's screwing what up for who friend?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  12. photo245

    photo245 New Member

    wisdom i sold that thing last yr when i joined the forum after i found out it was illeagel so i dont know how it runs or if it wven runs anymore i havent heard did you see the video where i replaced it with the 49cc motor the black one I still got that one dont use it anymore though now all i run is 49cc friction drive and thats all i need it does 25 to 30 mph all day long and it is leagel thats fine IF you can get it leagel but the way the states flip flop on theyre laws to make it work for them i dont see it happening honestly thats just like with my other hobby rc aircraft the goverment cant make up it's mind on weather we can use them as uav's so on both points it is a wait and see propition .
     
  13. photo245

    photo245 New Member

    oh believe me i've raised cain with everybody about the leagality's of it it can take one person to get killed on one of these bikes and boom ban city i dont tell u what to do i just wanna protect my rite to have these and be able to ride leagly without harrasment
     
  14. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    I feel you photo, which is why I am willing to do what it takes to keep it legal. If I'm on the right side of the law, or as close to it as I can get, showing good faith in wanting to cooperate with the laws, I am confident I will be fine. Its when people start being sneaky, deceptive and dishonest that the problems really start to flow.
     
  15. photo245

    photo245 New Member

    I dont like to make waves but when freedom is in jeperdy i will defend it. I always have and will that just me. I think that . what was it 107cc? Would be awesome on a gocart or something like that. I think it would probally be to heavy for a bicycle. But i havnt seen the size of it so i cant say. I got stopped by a hiway patrolmen this morning and he liked my friction drive kit. he asked the size of the motor first thing i told 48.5 cc whitch is exactly what it is. And he told me thats perfect then he asked how fast will it go i told him 20 to 30 mph and he said dont go no faster. And asked if i had a speedo i told him yes and he said keep it within the limits. If i would have had a big motor like the one u got. I would have been busted big time for no motorcycle licnese and no tags or insurance being leagel saved my bacon. He seen me a few minutes a go and he waved as he went by. thats why i dont run motors any bigger than the law allows i cant afford a ticket rite now . did u ever get that motor put on or u still working on it
     
  16. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    Yup, 107cc. It will also be perfect for maintaining a reasonable speed driving up Monteagle Mountain in TN. Anything less, and I'm walking my bike up it. That's the whole point behind having excess horsepower. Having to ride up a mountain, all of a sudden, it ain't excess, its needed. A typical car can travel at highway speeds on flat Roads with no wind on less than 30 horsepower. However, driving up a hill requires much much more. My bike will be legal, and be reasonably equipped for the tasks I expect it to accomplish.
    Yeah, its heavy. The engine, stock and running, is 30 pounds not counting fuel. I can get that down, and the total gain of all involved to get that engine on my bike will be less than 35 pounds minus fuel. Truth be told, the weight of the bike is almost a non-issue unless your racing. Before I head out across country, I have 55 more pounds to lose. Since I ride regularly without a motor at all, and am obese right now, that's the same as if I only lose 20 pounds and don't put an engine on at all. So see, weight ain't nearly as important as people would have you believe.

    I also have to lengthen the wheelbase by 20" in order to keep the weight low and out of the way of my feet when I pedal. That means low speed riding will be more lathargic, but all in all, it will make for a more comfortable ride.

    As you can tell, I'm still gathering materials and designing just what this project will take to become reality.

    When I get pulled over, I will offer to race the cop. The only rule will be we can only consume a half ounce of fuel each, first one to a 1/4 mile wins! lol

    I already have a tube installed in my handlebar to store the paperwork I will have to pull out to justify my meat motor driven gasoline assisted hybrid moto-bicycle.

    Yup, its gonna be an interesting ride. Especially considering it will be mechanically and electronically limited to 30mph. I could gear it to do 55+ easily, and I know most people with that much excess horsepower would do just that. As difficult as it was to turn at 40mph, I see no sense in high speeds. Now of I were 5' and could ride a bmx bike comfortably, them 20" wheels would be the ticket for 40+ but then you run into all sorts of stresses on other componemts that make it far too risky. I firmly believe anything over 30 mph sustained speeds on bicycle components is foolish at best, deadly at worst.

    *stepping down off my soapbox*
     
  17. photo245

    photo245 New Member

    I firmly believe anything over 30 mph sustained speeds on bicycle components is foolish at best, deadly at worst.

    *stepping down off my soapbox*
    I wish everybody else thought that way. Thats why i fuss when i hear that someone wants to put 200 hp motor on a bicycle figuretivly speaking. You need to look at augidogs motorized bicycle it is huge well he is way over 6'6 his bike is called. Sabrina he raced at the salt flats and won his bike has got to be as long as he is tall he built it his self talking about obese i was 135 before i got sick now im 230 and slowly loosing it now im 208 i had thyroid cancer and im also a diabetic on 4 shots a day i use to do bicycle touring on a regular basis it was nothing for me to pedal 100 miles a day now i'm lucky to hit 20 a day thats another reason im so protective of these bikes im 39 now and quit smoking thats when i got sick go figure you will probally wanna use moped not scooter wheels moped wheels are designed for that stuff thats what sabrina has on it here is a site to check out http://www.motoredbikes.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26169&d=1274195027 that might be something like you wanna do
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  18. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Not trying to be argumentative but that's the reasoning for having a motorcycle, IE: twist the grip and power on. That said however, one begins the power:weight ratio chase, more power equals more weight so the need more power arises. Weight for a touring bicycle, whether pedal powered or motor assisted, is a BIG deal. I took an 800 mile trip on a MAB last year and will say the lighter the better. My MABs now all weigh in at 50 lbs or less complete with fuel, that's my benchmark and wouldn't have one heavier. To each their own but for mea big part of the equation, the beauty and freedom of having a MAB, means having the original sweet functionality of a well tuned bicycle impacted as little as possible with the added gift of power assist when needed. More than that and I'd just get a real motorcycle.
     
  19. WisdomWarlord

    WisdomWarlord New Member

    I agree Happy. I had an Xtracycle on a Trek mountain bike, and liked the added versatility, and learned to ride with a "lazier" bike, so I know the added wheelbase on this project will be reasonable for me. I also love the flexibility of a fully functional and ridable bicycle with an engine when I want it. I'm being very mindful of the limitations of bicycle equipment so weight will stay within the realm of what the same components would have to endure without the engine. The exception is that the rear swingarm and wheel don't have to endure the torque of a 5HP engine, so they will both be beefed up accordingly. I was just looking in to 12g spokes for the rear wheel, although I have been told several times that 14g are plenty.

    As for a real motorcycle, well, I have never liked them. Sitting on top of a 75HP lawnmower engine and flying along at 70mph has always seemed proof of mental instability. I dumped my share of bicycles on pavement, gravel, and grass. None of it felt good. And it was all at 30mph or less! I have no desire to learn how fast my body decelerates on pavement, from 70. No, if I'm gonna go over 30 for long, I'll happily wrap myself in all the steel I can muster! And besides, a motorcycle needs way more that a half ounce of fuel to win a 1/4 mile drag race!
     
  20. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Fair enough WW, you've been pretty cool in response to these digressions into your thread.....but I never miss a chance to discuss the "philosophy" of MABs, heh.

    Travel well, may the skies be clear, the wind behind you and smiles greeting you along the way.
     
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