Your preference on reinforcing nuts on our engines

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by bakaneko, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    Hello. I was wondering what folks preference are to reinforcing the nuts on your engines. I prefer double nutting because I can remove them easily for maintenance or whatnot. Here is the list of methods and my thoughts. What's your preferred method?

    - Double nut = Can easily remove the nuts, a very few can still come out
    - Friction nut = Looks like a good method but I am not sure on application strength, never used it
    - Loctite = I think the preferred method of vendors and most bikers, but isn't removing it difficult (blue)
    - Lock washer = Probably the lowest cost method and easily removable; but for our engines does it work?
    - Nothing = :eek:

  2. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

    these are not motorcycles made in a nice factory with quality metal parts - none of those fixes will keep a fitting tight when the POS bolt or stud stretches

    just learn to check tightness regularly or replace all studs & bolts with better quality steel
  3. Timbone

    Timbone Active Member

    Red Loctite where you want things to stay forever. Blue Loctite everywhere else although nylocks with lock wagers will do fine on the sprocket rag joint.
  4. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    Ya, I replaced many of the bolts too. But, once you replace the bolts and nuts, do you do anything specific for the nuts?
  5. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

    I double-nut the gas tank, but other places, I just check periodically since the bike frame was not designed for the speed & vibration of the motor, I feel it is best to always keep an eye on things.
  6. butre

    butre Well-Known Member

    belleville washers and double nuts for me. I tear it down too often to hassle with loctite. if it's something not likely to ever need removal I might use safety wire.
  7. Legwon

    Legwon New Member

    lock washers on what nuts i do have. head and tank only.
    the rest are Allen key cap screws with lock washers, on intake and exhaust. allen key cap screws all thru rest of engine as well. none of them have come loose in well into 3000miles.
    I ride daily.
    Timbone likes this.
  8. troyg

    troyg Member

    The perfect solution, with 1000 other uses, SHOE-GOO!It's flexible, so vibrations don't effect it.I prefer the threads and nut to be a little dirty so it comes off easier, if you have any problems removing, gasoline dissolves it!
    Tighten your nut, place a little on your finger smear the thread/nut base, and where the nut flushes to what it's mounting to, you'll never have to touch it again.
    For clarity, I ride only GEBE, once adjusted it requires no further work in regards to bolts/nuts, if you ride a CG shoe-goo may not be a good deal as most CG are tinker things, need to constantly adjust/remove/replace/adjust/affix/repeat.
  9. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    im a nothing :eek: type man....

    ok, ok, i admittedly have double nutted the odd engine stud, but then, when i used bolts rather than studs and nuts... couldnt do that ;)

    having the really really thick engine mounting brackets that dont bend, and that allow you to get some decent tension on the nuts really helps ;)

    and lock/spring/star with legwon :)
  10. butre

    butre Well-Known Member

    my engine is mounted tight enough that I could pull the nuts off one side and it still pass the grab and yank test
  11. squirrel87

    squirrel87 New Member

    Dont use nyloc nuts on engine bolts theyll just melt and vibrate loose. I use loctite on engine studs and decent spring washers on everything else, but even they flatten out after removing them a couple of times.
  12. sbest

    sbest Active Member

    I'm a machinist and industrial mechanic with over 35yrs of experience in industry and quite some emphasis on machine reliability.

    Ideally nuts rely on bolt tension from elastic stretch to keep tight.
    Aluminum thermal expansion throws havoc into this and is the reason we see necked down "stretch" headbolts on newer engines. The bolts stretch elastically like a spring to keep a tension even with high thermal expansion. If you have ever tried (I did) larger bolts on these engines, you know they don't work. The strength limit on the China engines is not the stud, but where it threads into the case, however the supplied studs are typically very prone to stripping and deformation.

    I am not a fan of "shakeproof" or spring washers. They were originally invented to allow single wrench tightening on thru-bolt/nut installations, not for retention assurance. I was taught in college that hardened steel flat washers were the best answer in most cases. They spread the load and do not gall. Recently I have used Nord-Lock washers on industrial installations. Seen no failures but have no great history with them yet.

    Studs can be loctited in place, but are a nightmare if sheared off flush with the case, unless heat can melt it.
    Places where tension is essential like headbolts should just have standard nuts and flatwashers installed. Recheck torque often.

    Light tension uses (clamping on thin tube, against rubber, etc) where not enough torque can be applied can use:
    double nuts,
    single use Nyloc (if no heat), or
    single use "distorted thread" locknuts if the stud or bolt is of good enough quality.
    Spring or shakeproof washers will not help in light torque situations.

  13. Purple Haze

    Purple Haze Active Member

    In theory, bolt stretch (tension) will hold anything up to the shear limit of the bolt. On these engines, replacing the crappy stock fasteners with quality hardware will take care of most problems. I never use loctite or anything else on threads, they'll give a false torque reading and make disassembly a nightmare. Get a torque wrench and use it, these are not paint mixers, the vibrations are greatly overstated.