the MB-Legal Future? Predictions and Wild Guesses.

One thing to keep in mind is the effect of traffic saturation. The reason that the automobile has become so expensive to keep legal is because there are so many of them on the roads getting in each other's way. And, yes, there are instances of states suddenly increasing registration fees for the sake of general revenue. My state did it several years back. A pretty hefty raise, too. It still burns me. But this is more the exception than the rule.

But let's start with one assumption; America is going to have to give up the automobile for most personal use. I know this isn't absolutely certain, but it seems likely. Let's imagine it happens overnight. The roads will be a lot more clear. There will be less friction between cars, motorcycles, scooters, motor assisted bicycles, etc. It'll be even better in winter because some of those vehicles simply can't operate. Those people will take a bus. There'll be people who latch onto the motor assisted bike but can't face the winter. They'll be on a bus, too. There might be variations; maybe those who won't face up to riding in winter will scrimp and save enough to operate their cars. Some of them, anyway. But the general trend will be toward clearer roads.

This will undermine society's justification for regulating our vehicles so heavily. Right now our status is marginal precisely because society doesn't really want us riding these things. The car is still king. When this changes (and it looks like that's about to happen), then very small-engined personal conveyances will take over. And any village council, county board or state legislature who tries to stifle it will be looking for a butt-kicking in the next election.

There's nothing wrong with setting minimum standards for equipment and operator competence. But at this point in time, that won't help us much. When we've managed to kill the automobile, then we'll be the only game in town. But until then we'll be tolerated at best. Maybe there's already been some improvement; I have a notion that respect for our fuel saving ability is one reason that the cops don't hassle those of us who ride maturely. Maybe we all should put those signs on our bikes that say "150 mpg".
At a point in time that it is getting very painful to keep a car on the road, things like this might be just what it takes to "kick it over the edge".

And good riddance!
 
Fact is, they don't have to do any such thing. Government is about control, and mechanisms of control are thoroughly entrenched in society - growing ever more entrenched with each passing day. ... Sure, we may agree with most of it, and happily cooperate in our own control - if we didn't, society could not function at all - but it is still control by force.
Yes, and we're supposed to control the gov't, but people nowadays are slave to the system -- whoores to the system, if you will. We're the system's biznitch if we don't slap *them* around every once in awhile. And I think that most people do agree with the majority of the laws that are passed... but for the most part, we just don't know of the st00pit and outdated laws until it hits us. That's when we have to go to court to convince a judge that we weren't in the wrong, or maybe even convince a jury that the law is what's wrong.

I believe our court system really is what makes this country today, and of course the people who rebelled from their oppressors and created fair laws because they held some certain truths to be self-evident!!

So, should we debate and attempt to reach a consensus on what is reasonable as a level of control? Of course we should - it is much easier to inflence governmental actions before the controls are imposed than after they are codified and enforced.
Exactly!! The problem with bad laws is that some goofus is going to have to enforce it, because they can't think for themselves... and don't care to change the laws themselves. Why would they? They're getting a paycheck to follow orders. If we can convince legislators that we have the answer to all their problems, they will help us... and we will in turn help them by re-electing them, and telling others to re-elect them. If they believe enough people will like just one good piece of legislation, they will have the support of those directly affected by the legislation... and the support of those who are friends of those directly affected by the legislation. Word of mouth is the #1 advertiser, I hear. :cool:

As I see it, first we need a proper definition of what constitutes a pedalcycle - be it one, two, three, four, or however many wheels/riders.
I feel this is the most important thing... all other additional rules are mostly inherent. And as long as each state defines a pedacycle / MB as something different from a motorcycle, we've at least spared every rider the hassle of hearing a cop threaten them with no reg, no ins, no brake light, no tail light, improper braking equipment, etc. Once we get the definition down, the law ENFORCERS will accept us for what we all know we are -- a bicycle with a motor attached. At that point, a state can make up any other laws which it deems necessary, IMO, like having a license, riding 20mph or riding 30mph, riding at certain hours of the day, etc... but the definition is key. Headlight, helmet, & 50cc limit are pretty standard, tho. I think every reasonable person would expect a MBer to abide by these minimum rules... so if we push our legislators to start here, we win.
 
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Ya know... I'd really be interested in how the "good" states' legislatures became aware of MBs. Did someone ask a friend in their state's congress to write the law? Did a congressman just see an MBer riding and think, I should help that guy out? Did lots of people in one state push for the change? Did they just make it up before they ever heard about MBs?

I would really appreciate it those in the MB-friendly states could answer this question for me, even if it means calling/emailing/writing your state's legislators. It could save us in the "bad" states a good bit of trouble.
 
Sparky, I haven't really looked into the history of motorized bikes, at all. I do think that the odds of some legislator just wanting to help a rider out are pretty slim - you are talking about a politician, you know. That said, motorized bicycles have been around well over one hundred years, and they were the evolutionary roots of every other form of motorcycle. It was the "need for speed" coupled with cheap fuel that led to the travesties of 1200+ cc 4 or 6 cylinder water-cooled "bikes" we see today.

During that whole period, motorized bikes never went away, and they enjoyed several periods of resurgent popularity in the US. One of those periods resulted in the Whizzer - and I frankly don't care how they view themselves, they buid light-duty motorcycles. You may have noticed the relatively huge number of us older guys on the board - most of us can remember seeing/reading about the gas engine motorization kits (mostly friction drives) that were briefly popular in our youth, and thinking how COOL they were.

Now we have very REAL reasons to want such - gas is $4+/gallon in most of the country, most cars are doing well to get 20 mpg, and that really hurts. My car gets 30 mpg, around town, and I buy about one (10 ga) tank of fuel a month - every month it costs more to fill up, but my income stays the same "(pretty marginal, as is).

I NEED cheaper transportation, and I can't ride a two-wheeler. Nor will my numb from the knees down legs pedal a trike very far, and I live in a hilly town - the intersection my apt sits at is downhill from 3 directions (in a gully-washer it gets waist deep, quick). Being severely diabetic, I'm subject to getting really hot, really quickly, when exercising. Another problem with pedalling, in 90+ degree heat with 99% humidity.

So, a motorized trike is my best bet - in fact, it is the only bet I have any hope of affording.
 
Huh? The Tanaka 2-Stroke 33cc has been known to run 10s of 1000s of miles at that very LEAN mixture.

I think you may have misunderstood me, while the 50:1 fuel/oil ratio itself is not problematic, the limited adjustment carbs are. A lot of two stroke power equipment doesn't run correctly right out of the box. I purchased a new trimmer that ran horribly until I cut off the plastic limiters and slotted the adjustment screws and enriched the mixture a little bit. (more than what the limiter would let me do) If I had continued to run the trimmer that way, the engine would have seized up, or at the very least had a severely shortened service life.

A nice Tanaka or Mitsubishi two stroke probably has a nikasil (or other) lining plated to the cylinder bore, and a quality alloy piston and quality piston rings and is designed for hundreds of hours of use. Your typical "big box" two stroke trimmer runs the piston in a plain aluminum bore, and uses lower quality parts to hit that $69.95 price point. The end result is an engine that is intolerant of lean running conditions. I regularly tune the carbs on my two stroke power equipment from season to season because what runs good at 90F will be too lean at 60F. (I have removed the limiter caps on all of them) My 4 cycle push mower has no adjustments at all and will refuse to run properly below 60F. (runs hot, surges, etc) I keep an old 70's lawn boy around because it has a fully adjustable carburetor, and can be tuned to run great regardless of the weather. (sounds cool too, if you are a two stroke fan)

In any case, my main point was that once the motorized bike, motorcycle and scooter population explode, they will be regulated as tightly as automobiles. This will make them much more expensive and people will just continue to drive cars. Then again, maybe a company can engineer a magneto driven, computer controlled electronic fuel injection system that will not cost a lot. (it may happen, remember when DVD players were $500?)

I just bought a 110cc motorcycle (about the same wheelbase as a Vespa) for less than $1000. It can cruise at 50 mph, and gets around 100 mpg. Imagine what it would cost if the government tightened up emissions to the point where it needed electronic engine management, catalytic converter, etc. It wouldn't be cheap transportation anymore. Quite a few cycles are sporting EFI nowadays, but they are all pretty expensive. They should allow anything with less than 250 cc to run looser standards IMO. The reduction of fuel use trumps the additional pollution IMO.

Motorized bikes might be outlawed altogether in some states. All it would take would be a kid to get killed in an accident to spawn a knee jerk reaction by the govt. If the kids name was James, it would be called "Jimmy's law" and who wouldn't want to support "Jimmy's law"? If you don't, you're obviously anti-children. Outlaw motorized bikes! :p (hey, you might put an eye out with that thing!)
 
Then again, maybe a company can engineer a magneto driven, computer controlled electronic fuel injection system that will not cost a lot.
That would be sooo awesome. A 33-40cc diesel injected engine is what I'm after. I'd hook that up to a NuVinci hub... and then I could die happy.

They should allow anything with less than 250 cc to run looser standards IMO. The reduction of fuel use trumps the additional pollution IMO.
Hear, hear. Stop using so much fuel, America!!
 
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When too many are breaking the law, it's time to change the law.
I see a big future in MB's. At 120-180 miles per gallon, and fuel running over 4.00 per gallon, what logical explanation would prevent their (MB's) acceptance ?
 
ummm...underage riders (read: bad parenting) can kill the movement as fast as they can kill themselves on MB's...and altho underage riders without helmets is horribly bad parenting, we'll be penalized for that too...

illegal engine-sizes will definitely have an impact, too. i also believe multiple gearing and higher speeds will quickly convince the lawmakers to regret any wiggle-room they've been allowing us so far. if we want to retain our MB-status, we have to retain an MB-image.

so, even tho i fear we may be beyond responsible self-regulation, it seems we'll have to find a way to pull it off...
 
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I'm pretty much OK with a 12 year old kid riding a motorized bike, provided he wears a helmet and rides responsibly. Like you said, it is the parents that are responsible for allowing their kids to do it, and to make sure they do it in a responsible manner. When I was a kid, me and my friends rode Briggs & Stratton powered minibikes (some had real Honda 50's and 70's) all over the neighborhood and wooded areas where we lived. We were extra careful about tangling with automobile traffic, and we kept out of trouble knowing that we'd get our butts kicked if we were up to any mischief.
 
not debate or criticism, but only discussion

i was there for "rupp's" glory days, too :) ...those days are gone :(

the feds and states with definitive laws are pretty much NOT ok with kids riding motoredbikes, tho...they say 16yo as consensus i believe...so, my point about the futility of self-regulation becomes more evident as the topic moves on, and imo it WILL bite our MB-butts sooner or later.

remember, adults with jobs need these things...and kids using them as toys will quickly change the legal arena.
 
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