CVT transmission used on the NE-R:

Moped... to be or not to be

So with all this thread discusses, the questions arise: Why do we ride our motorbike? Is it for want or need? Fuel mileage or fun? Shift or not to shift? Go fast or go slow? All of those questions can be answered but only on an individual basis by the motorbike's owner. The CVT is a great thing for those who must ride in congested areas and stay up with traffic to stay alive[Go fast or go slow?]. But to the motorbike purest it is an encroachment into the tradition set forth by the motorbike ancestors of days gone by[shift or not to shift?].I live 27 miles from my work. I would like to be able to do 50 mph, safely and reliably, and still get 100 mpg. Maybe that's just a pipe dream, but I think it's feasible with a street legal MB [of some sort]. But it is going to take a bit of evolution and craftsmanship to do that. Go buy a motorcycle you say?? HMMM... You couldn't fill a semi truck with all the motrcycles I've owned, but close. I've had all types and sizes and hp's. Not a one of them could accomplish 50 mph and 100mpg. Everyone of us are purests of some sort or we wouldn't be here. Motorbiking is ubiquitous for fun, but can it become a viable means of everyday transportation? I guess the CVT is one step in that evolution to accomplish that feat.
 
Everyone of us are purests of some sort or we wouldn't be here. Motorbiking is ubiquitous for fun, but can it become a viable means of everyday transportation? I guess the CVT is one step in that evolution to accomplish that feat.

YEAH!!!! Greatly said Tonastke! You seem like you will get along well on this forum!

Crazy Riding,
ZnsaneRyder
 
The law (at least in CA) states : Automatic Transmission.

HOWEVER, every automatic transmission in a CA car has the ability to shift manually between gears also.... SO i think if one develops a system that CAN shift automatically, yet can also be manually controlled, no court is going to argue that it's not an automatic.

I think the legislators, in their typical stupidity, were trying to specify no manual clutch (as all automatic transmissions ARE missing)... and ALL HT's, unless you buy the centrifugal option, are at risk here.

So, it's up to someone to decide whether a centrifugal clutch is enough to define the bike as 'automatic transmision' or not... anybody have any experience with either the police or the courts making that definition?

By not specifying BOTH the transmission type and the clutch type (at least in CA), the legislators have made a very gray area here that both we and law enforement will try to exploit to either's advantage.

If we want to try to grandfather in the manual clutch, there were early automotive trannies in the 40's or so that had manual clutch, but shifted gears automatically.. and they were called 'Automatic'.
 
Last edited:
If you hop up a 49cc motor/drivetrain so that it is capable of 50 mph and put it on a bike that would be at all reliable at 50 mph you would not be getting 100mpg, definitely a pipe dream. Not to mention the fact that there are no laws whatsoever supporting 50 mph for MAB's. 30 is the max I have seen.

It is all about power to weight. You had better stick with motorcycles and try something like a hydrogen generator aka Brown's Gas on say as light a 250cc as you can find. A guy here is having really good luck installing them on Harley's gaining power and mileage. Or make your own fuel such as alcohol with a BATF permit and Blume's book.
 
The law (at least in CA) states : Automatic Transmission.

A centrifugal clutch IS what makes the automatic transmission. That's how the MAJORITY of MotoredBikes are already. The law states auto with no shifting, so you have just a simple clutch turning your drivetrain, and not some guy with 5 gears going fast like a motorcycle.
 
The law states auto with no shifting

As stated earlier, CA law says no such thing related to shifting, IMO:

CVC 406: Motorized Bicycle

406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

That's it as far as i can tell from reading all pertinent California Vehicular Codes that I have been able to find. Of course there are many other regulations regarding motorized bikes, gas, electric, low power electric, etc.. BUT 406(a) is the only one that has mention of a transmission.

If I've overlooked a CVC that is pertinent, please point me in the right direction.


Relative to the 'Majority of MB's, my only experience is with frame mounted HT's.... the majority of which are manual clutch. I did opt for the new HT centrifugal clutch option for this very reason, so I could claim 'automatic' status if necessary.
 
Last edited:
Auto-trans debate......again

Hi Quad, the section you quoate is form a simplified version. The full verbage includes " an automatic transmission of no more than 2 speeds, incaplable of maunal shifting.

I still do not know what CA will say about CVT, BUT it provides a range that is definately more than 2-speed would AND will certainly cause you to be propelled more than 30 mph, or the bulk of people here would not be interested in it.

The paln is, high gearing, let the CVT do the work on the bottom end.

Mike
 
If you hop up a 49cc motor/drivetrain so that it is capable of 50 mph and put it on a bike that would be at all reliable at 50 mph you would not be getting 100mpg, definitely a pipe dream. Not to mention the fact that there are no laws whatsoever supporting 50 mph for MAB's. 30 is the max I have seen.

Agreed, and consistent with the laws in the state I live, at least, as seen in the abstract below.

According to state law, a moped is a "motorized bicycle." In order to be classified as a moped, the vehicle must:

* Have a cylinder capacity of no more than 50 cubic centimeters.
* Have an automatic transmission not causing the operator to shift gears.
* Be capable of a maximum speed of no more than 30 miles per hour and
not operated at a speed greater than 25 miles per hour.

A moped sticker, issued by the RMV, must be affixed to the moped. This sticker will not be issued unless the vehicle meets the above requirements.

Operating Requirements

Moped operators are subject to the traffic laws, rules and regulations of the Commonwealth.

Mopeds will have the right to use all public ways in the Commonwealth, except limited access or express state highways where signs prohibiting bicycles have been posted.

Mopeds may use bicycle lanes next to various ways but are excluded from off street recreational paths.

Moped operators must signal their intention to stop or turn by using either hand.

Mopeds may keep right when passing a motor vehicle which is in the travel lane of a way.

Restrictions When Operating a Moped

Mopeds will not be operated:

* By any person under 16 years of age.
* By any person who does not have a valid license or permit.
* At a speed greater than 25 miles per hour.
* Without the operator and any passenger wearing a DOT standard helmet.
 
Hi Quad, the section you quoate is form a simplified version. The full verbage includes " an automatic transmission of no more than 2 speeds, incaplable of maunal shifting.

I still do not know what CA will say about CVT, BUT it provides a range that is definately more than 2-speed would AND will certainly cause you to be propelled more than 30 mph, or the bulk of people here would not be interested in it.

The paln is, high gearing, let the CVT do the work on the bottom end.

Mike


Mike,

Can you point me to a link to the particular CVC? I've searched and read the codes i've found for, literally, many hours and still haven't seen this reference. I know MB's are mentioned in many places. I've seemed to have missed this one.

In the law, one must also try to envision their 'intent' when they made the law (I was married to a lawyer for 20 years - i know, condolences are in order). Why would they limit to not more than 2 speeds? Was it simply a feeble attempt to keep the speed at or below 30mph? AND, in a court, how does one define a 'speed' in a transmission as opposed to a gear ratio (which is the way it should have been worded if the legislators had even the tiniest amount of mechanical knowledge). Remember Bill Clinton's statement while testifying: "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is?"

I would assume that even with a CVT, if your speed is limited to 30 or under (under CA laws), then the law is likely to leave you alone, assuming all other requirements are also met... but it will always be up to the interpretation of the law enforcement officer and the courts, if you must go that far.

Best bet: Don't do anything that warrants getting pulled over and the question will never be asked.
 
Last edited:
A CVT does not essentially have any gears. I think you could say that it has two gears, the one it starts out in and the one it ends up in. Actually if you want to get technical you can divide that ratio between the start and the top end by any number, so you could say it has a 1,000 speeds. I just depends what number you divide by. If you want to belay the point the Whizzer slipper clutch is something like a CVT as it uses friction as the communicator between the engine and the rear wheel, the engine is turning at one speed and the wheel at another. Have fun, Dave
 
Back
Top