florida

[Mountainman]

sumed up everyTHING very well -- except

They COULD impound it but then you would be able to sue the **** out of them foe wrongful prosecution.

sangesf -- you have sumed up everyTHING very well here -- except

sueing the **** out of them for wrongful prosecution
there is not one lawyer around that would wish to take that case
unless one paid them around 5 thousand dollars up front
it's a no winner

no reason to waste time when we can be riding the MB thing

 

[sangesf]

Sangesf please don't hijack the thread or confuse the issue, as your opinions are well known in past threads. And a drivers license is not the issue. If it is not a motor vehicle why would you need a license. If it is a knife and not a gun why would I need a pistol permit? You do not need a license for a bicycle. You do not need a license for a Motorized Bicycle since it is quite clear it is not considered a motor vehicle. What are you suggesting a fishing license?

Perfect! Loquin that is the document also to add to the others. That document was given me to by DMV in Punta Gorda.

Um...

1.) I did NOT hijack any thread.
As for your knife example, if the knife shot bullets like a gun, then by definition it would be a gun. (It's all in the definitions)

2.) I didn't say anything about it being an "issue" with a DL, since the OP stated he had one.

3.) Except for the suing part, those were facts not opinions.

(21) MOTOR VEHICLE.--Any self-propelled vehicle not operated upon rails or guideway, but not including any bicycle, motorized scooter, electric personal assistive mobility device, or moped

4.) According to the above law (316.003 part 21), a moped is not considered a "Motor Vehicle" either, BUT, you STILL need a license to ride one in Florida.

5.) Stop trying to make it personal. Just because you don't like the fact that the second you put gas on a bicycle (except for MAYBE a "pusher trailer" or something similar), you need a license, is not a reason to be a punk about it. It's a FACT, whether you like it or not.

SHEESH... Stop giving out incorrect information..

If ANYONE had even the SLIGHTEST worry about the license issue.... Bring your bike (and/or a photo of it) to the local DMV and ask them.. That way there is NO worry.

P.S. IF YOU DO GET A DMV OFFICIAL TO SIGN A WRITTEN DOCUMENT STATING THAT YOU DO NOT NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE WITH A MOTORIZED (GAS) BICYCLE, LET ME KNOW AND I WILL DEFINITELY MEET UP WITH YOU AND GET A COPY OF IT AND GET IT NOTORIZED AND MAKE MANY COPIES AND DISTRIBUTE THEM TO EVERY SINGLE COUNTY IN FLORIDA.

P.P.S I'm still looking for someone with that documentation.

 

[duivendyk]

This Florida DMV publication RS61 is confusing.It purports to deal with licensing and registation reqd's
1) It does NOT 'define' in any way what constitutes a motorized bicycle,it merely acknowledge their existence,and states it does NOT need to be licensed
2) It does define a moped in detail: (pedals,below 50cc,below 2 HP,below 30 mph speed
no clutch or gearshift,autotransmission OK )
3) a 2 or 3 wheeled motor driven vehicle that does not fit the definition of a moped is considered a 'motorcycle'(for instance a motor scooter)
4) It has NOTHING to say how MB's are to be treated except the licensing is not required it seems it would like to pretend they do not exist and is is mute on titling or insurance requirements
What might it mean?.par 3),states that an MB with more than 50cc displacement or caught doing more than 30mph is a motorcycle as far as the DMV is concerned.Since it is not a moped.That it does not look like one, might well be beside the point.That means the whole schmeer (license ,plates,lights etc).You might have to prove that it is a moped.The question remains:
what if anything is a motorized bicycle according to the DMV ??,good question.

 

[sangesf]

This Florida DMV publication RS61 is confusing.It purports to deal with licensing and registation reqd's
1) It does NOT 'define' in any way what constitutes a motorized bicycle,it merely acknowledge their existence,and states it does NOT need to be licensed
2) It does define a moped in detail: (pedals,below 50cc,below 2 HP,below 30 mph speed
no clutch or gearshift,autotransmission OK )
3) a 2 or 3 wheeled motor driven vehicle that does not fit the definition of a moped is considered a 'motorcycle'(for instance a motor scooter)
4) It has NOTHING to say how MB's are to be treated except the licensing is not required it seems it would like to pretend they do not exist and is is mute on titling or insurance requirements
What might it mean?.par 3),states that an MB with more than 50cc displacement or caught doing more than 30mph is a motorcycle as far as the DMV is concerned.That it does not look like one, might well be beside the point.That means the whole schmeer (license ,plates,lights etc).You might have to prove that it is a moped.The question remains:
what if anything is a motorized bicycle according to the DMV ??,good question.

According to the definitions in the 316.003 part 2 a Motorized Bicycle utilizes an electric motor, and gas is not mentioned in that definition.

The REAL question (not to me, but to others) is as to whether a bicycle with an added gas motor is a Moped or not (in terms of drivers licensing).

What is REALLY wanted by some is a definition SPECIFICALLY DEFINING what a gas bicycle is.

RS61 is about license plates and nothing else.

DESCRIPTION AND USE:
THIS PROCEDURE IS PROVIDED TO ASSIST TAX COLLECTOR EMPLOYEES, LICENSE
PLATE AGENCY EMPLOYEES AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND
MOTOR VEHICLES IN PROVIDING INFORMATION AND INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE
ISSUANCE OF LICENSE PLATES FOR MOTORCYCLES, MOPEDS, AND DISABILITY ACCESS
VEHICLES.

Trust me, the laws are DEFINITELY confusing, there are specific laws for specific aspects of everything. All of it is spelled out in the other thread about MB's and Florida law. Check there for specifics, except for the aforementioned gas bicycle.

 

[Gene]

I offered no opinions only cited law and dmv documents. You however continue to act like you are Louis Nizer. Someone you could never even pretend to be. Calling me a punk is not playing nice. Face it buddy, Not everyone appreciates your rants every time Florida Law threads are posted here. Maybe you should get a degree and get back to us like real quick like. Yea and by the way the law is not too mute when it says that Motorized bicycles are excluded in the definition. We are not talking about Mopeds duh

 

[sangesf]

I offered no opinions only cited law and dmv documents. You however continue to act like you are Louis Nizer. Someone you could never even pretend to be. Calling me a punk is not playing nice. Face it buddy, Not everyone appreciates your rants every time Florida Law threads are posted here. Maybe you should get a degree and get back to us like real quick like. Yea and by the way the law is not too mute when it says that Motorized bicycles are excluded in the definition. We are not talking about Mopeds duh

I was using the Moped part of it as a rebuttal to you talking about (GAS Powered) bicycles not needing a drivers license just because they are not "Motor Vehicle"s.... well a Moped is not a "Motor Vehicle" either, but you still need a license for it and you know that's why I brought it up, please don't try to confuse the issue.

And in reply to your reply about the "punk" part, well face it, you WERE acting like one and you started it, and the part about opinion, I made no statement that you were using opinion, I said I was NOT using opinion but law. All of the laws that have been cited for use in arguments about not needing a DL for a Gas Powered bicycles have been laws NOT DESCRIBING ANYTHING ABOUT MOTOR VEHICLE DRIVERS LICENSING, but ARE describing EVERYTHING else. (e.g. License Plates, Tags, Registration, etc, etc.)


And I never said I was a Lawyer, but I do know how to read and although the laws ARE confusing, I have talked to MANY at the HSMV (and their governing body, the Bureau of Field Operations), the State Legislature group, State Statute group, Sheriff's Offices, and a few others, including the office of the AG. And every single one of them says, if you have a bicycle with a gas motor on it, you need a DL to ride it on public roads.
The only exemption for not needing a DL (for purposes of our discussion) is a "Motorized Bicycle" and that is Defined as having an ELECTRIC motor and not gas.
As a matter fact, in those terms, when describing the Vehicle being used (i.e. A bicycle with a gas motor under 50cc's) under the definitions used in the STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL (i.e. That's the laws describing vehicles (or their exemptions) that you need a DL for use on a public road (and other laws pertaining to public roads)) that the description of a bicycle with a gas motor is the same as the definition as a moped and hence, since you need a license to ride a Moped on a public road, you need one for a gas powered Bicycle too. Quoted below is the applicable part of the SUTC...

(77) MOPED.--Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels; with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground; and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the drive system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.

And I'm still waiting on that Documentation from ANYONE with whom they have paperwork from a DMV official stating that you don't need a license for a Bicycle with a gas motor on it. That's the end all of everything, right there. Get me that and I'll shut up forever. (According to you that should be EASY)

 

[Gene]

abstract: (27) "Motor vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guideway, excluding vehicles moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in s.
You say
well a Moped is not a "Motor Vehicle" either,
Where does it say a Moped is not a motor vehicle?
Clearly it is because it has not been excluded as motorized bicycles have been in the above definition.

 

[duivendyk]

As far as I am concerned,logically if an MB does not meet the definition of a moped and is not powered electrically,it is a motor cycle,for licensing,according to the letter of the DMV pronouncements.Alternatively since it is a MB, it is not required to be licensed.So it is an motorcycle which does not require licensing,which is not allowed either.An MB is only defined in a negative sense i.e. What it is NOT ,not what it is.They don't want to have anything to do with them really.What the cops make of all of this,who knows?.But there is prob. enough confusion to beat a citation,arm yourself with helpful documents&try not to attract untoward attention

 

[crazy4life]

I'v seen a couple guys in my town with them and they dont have their licenses. They have been pulled over before but im with everybody who says you dont need a license to have a MB

 

[eastwoodo4]

ok monday im gonna call someone who knows and see if u have to register mopeds in this state still.from what ive found mopeds arent motor vehicles in this state.but you might still have to register them.a motorized bicycle is described as an electric bike.so my bike actually fits a moped more than a bike.so if i have to register a moped ill have to register this.