Anyone see an electric bike in their future?

Yup.....I had a electric hub in a pusher configuration for a while. I was happy with it considering its limitations as far as speed and range. It topped out at less than 20, which is fine for short runs. I plan on redoing and improving the design when I have the time. I think electric will become more popular as battery technology improves, and hopefully cost comes down.

My reason is primarly because of legalities. For some reason the powers that be are more tolerant of electric. From an environmental point of view, I don't see electric as *more green* in the real world....but "ya can't argue with city hall". At least I don't have much success. I will say that it is kind of cool to silently glide by bikes and pedestrians on some of the trails, and they just think I am in really good shape......for an old fart. :D
 
Yup.....I had a electric hub in a pusher configuration for a while. I was happy with it considering its limitations as far as speed and range. It topped out at less than 20, which is fine for short runs. I plan on redoing and improving the design when I have the time. I think electric will become more popular as battery technology improves, and hopefully cost comes down.

My reason is primarly because of legalities. For some reason the powers that be are more tolerant of electric. From an environmental point of view, I don't see electric as *more green* in the real world....but "ya can't argue with city hall". At least I don't have much success. I will say that it is kind of cool to silently glide by bikes and pedestrians on some of the trails, and they just think I am in really good shape......for an old fart. :D

only one problem with batteries aside from the toxic pollution... china currently leads in development, and owns most of the battery technology and lithium production.

Good luck on them cutting us a deal on battery technology anytime soon...
 
only one problem with batteries aside from the toxic pollution... china currently leads in development, and owns most of the battery technology and lithium production.

Good luck on them cutting us a deal on battery technology anytime soon...

You have some good points there. I wasn't aware of China's *monopoly* on battery technology. Guess they have invaded more of "our" territory than I am aware of.

Actually, I kind of like the idea of fuel cells rather than batteries. That would eliminate many of the objections to batteries. Or, maybe I should start building a mini-nucleur reactor. :unsure::giggle: That would get the neighbors talking......more than they already do. :whistle:
 
You have some good points there. I wasn't aware of China's *monopoly* on battery technology. Guess they have invaded more of "our" territory than I am aware of.

Actually, I kind of like the idea of fuel cells rather than batteries. That would eliminate many of the objections to batteries. Or, maybe I should start building a mini-nucleur reactor. :unsure::giggle: That would get the neighbors talking......more than they already do. :whistle:

If they could develop a good viable way to effectively produce hydrogen I would be totally on board... only problem is, to the best of my knowledge all attempts to produce hydrogen have lost energy in the process. IE you get less hydrogen than the electricity it took to produce it.

sorry guys... hybrid and e-cars annoy me. I dont know when people will figure out that small cars like the honda fit, cobalt, and versa are the way to rid ourselves of foreign oil addiction. We need to learn that a full size pickup, suv, or 500 hp muscle are not the best daily drivers. You can have those kinds of vehicles too, but use them secondary to a small fuel efficient car for everyday things like errands and commuting.

batteries are a waist of time and an overall distraction in R&D... I think in the grand scheme of things they will be remembered as a rube-goldburg solution to a more simple problem.
 
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If they could develop a good viable way to effectively produce hydrogen I would be totally on board... only problem is, to the best of my knowledge all attempts to produce hydrogen have lost energy in the process. IE you get less hydrogen than the electricity it took to produce it.

sorry guys... hybrid and e-cars annoy me. I dont know when people will figure out that small cars like the honda fit, cobalt, and versa are the way to rid ourselves of foreign oil addiction. We need to learn that a full size pickup, suv, or 500 hp muscle are not the best daily drivers. You can have those kinds of vehicles too, but use them secondary to a small fuel efficient car for everyday things like errands and commuting.

batteries are a waist of time and an overall distraction in R&D... I think in the grand scheme of things they will be remembered as a rube-goldburg solution to a more simple problem.

More good points. Unfortunately, many energy conversions are energy losing...ie it takes more bio fuel to produce ethanol than the energy you get from the ethanol. For electricity, I think solar, wind, and even nuclear are the energy of the future....barring an unforseen technology breakthrough like harnessing ocean waves or tides. You are spot on as far as using smaller and more efficient cars for the *daily driver* and use the Cobra as a toy. Present battery technology....you are probably right. What the future holds....have to wait and see.

Using present and forseeable future technology, you have the obvious answer. Down the road....who knows. Part of the problem is the government trying to *legislate* solutions, which usually creates several new problems in the process of solving one. I kind of like the attitude that prevailed around the turn of the century. Those were the *golden years* of motorized transportation development.
 
More good points. Unfortunately, many energy conversions are energy losing...ie it takes more bio fuel to produce ethanol than the energy you get from the ethanol. For electricity, I think solar, wind, and even nuclear are the energy of the future....barring an unforseen technology breakthrough like harnessing ocean waves or tides. You are spot on as far as using smaller and more efficient cars for the *daily driver* and use the Cobra as a toy. Present battery technology....you are probably right. What the future holds....have to wait and see.

Using present and forseeable future technology, you have the obvious answer. Down the road....who knows. Part of the problem is the government trying to *legislate* solutions, which usually creates several new problems in the process of solving one. I kind of like the attitude that prevailed around the turn of the century. Those were the *golden years* of motorized transportation development.

sounds about right... I wish that they would get yucca mountain back on track. That would have made nuclear energy much safer and therefore a more viable energy option for the future.

D*** politicians...
 
Well, someone finally mentioned fuel cells.

Vtec seems to assume that all fuel cells require hydrogen as their fuel - simply not true. You used to be able to buy a Swatch powered by beer. For that matter, fuel cells are in production that run on LNG, ethanol, butane, methanol, and various other petroleum based fuels. It is a matter of catalysis process design and layering.

Want a hybrid e-bike, with the silence and relatively low environmental impact of electric motors as a prime mover? Want the range of an internal combustion power plant without the noise/smell/exhaust? Then take a look at where fuel cells are headed.

Here is an example: http://www.mtimicrofuelcells.com/ - which runs on wood alcohol - methanol. Which is actually easier and cheaper to produce than ethanol.

Oh, and the cost effectiveness of ethanol production is complex, but the biggest single driver is the feed stock. If you use agricultural land to grow feed grains (or sugarcane - see Brazil) it drives up the cost substantially, not least because then food costs more because of diversion of production, and your net energy production is at best break even, usually actually negative. If, however, you use as feed stack a non-grain based crop which grows well on marginal soils, such as switch grass, then the net energy produced is very much a positive number. Per unit of energy input into all levels of processing, switch grass sourced ethanol is typically 3 - 5 times more efficient than corn based ethanol.

So, yes, a hybrid e-bike is seriously possible and becoming an attractive alternative, if the hybrid is petroleum fueled fuel cells and electric motors as prime movers.
 
Well, someone finally mentioned fuel cells.

Vtec seems to assume that all fuel cells require hydrogen as their fuel - simply not true. You used to be able to buy a Swatch powered by beer. For that matter, fuel cells are in production that run on LNG, ethanol, butane, methanol, and various other petroleum based fuels. It is a matter of catalysis process design and layering.


so... does the energy extraction/conversion work the same as with hydrogen???

Is that how my catalytic tent heater works...I mean, similar to how a fuel cell in a car generates electricity???
 
Well vtech I'll answer. Yes there is an e-bike in my futuer simply be cause in British Columbia the charges if you are caught riding a gas powered bike are having a unregistered, unlicenced, uninsured motor vehicle. The fine as I understand $5,000 and 2 years in jail. That's the maximum but I have no real desire to challenge them.

The province is the insurance co. and they sell through themselves as well as private companies. You buy your plates at the same time you buy your insurance or get your tags if you renew.
They, being the province, make the laws and control the police. One neat package.

Gas powered bikes were seen as a problem by the province so when the Feds were drawing up the National Regulations for Mopeds/Light Motorcycles the only persons to show up were Ford and the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia to look after thier own interests.

Now we can have 500W motors that can go up to 18kms/20mph.
I'm putting one on my side car build. I would prefer a 2 stroke but they are going into the trash just about every where.

My thought is that we will see a whole new battery technology driven by the need for a non polluting power source in China.
As they shut down the HT motors except for the few that will comply, the 4stroke or battery camps will set up.

Batteries will be the winner in the end as the "green" crowd push for the end of all gas motors and the politico run after the money offered.

The hub motor and the top of the line battery here are going to run about $1,500. Not happy times pricing but given the options it's the best way out and the only one.

Can't wait to see how it runs to tell you the truth. I'm kind of betting that it will be a lot of fun.
Wondering if a set of Caddy air horn can be set up so that you can ghost up behind the
Spandex/skinny tire set and give them a blast.

Who says an electric bike can't be fun?

Steve.
 
Well, back on topic, after further reflection caused by this thread and one in the electrical components forum, I'm getting interested. What I have in mind is a recumbent tadpole, full suspension, power on both front wheels (maybe all three), onboard small 4 stroke powered generator to extend the range.

I know, I know, why not just power it directly with the gas motor? Couple of reasons - it is this way legally an e-bike, as the motive power system is electric, but has the advantage of extended range.

Hey, if a guy got really bold he could set it up so the rear wheel is free to caster, with individual throttles to each front wheel - think about the cornering capability that puppy would have! Not feasible for me with just one hand, but you could even go with single tiller bar steering with programmed response to slow the inside wheel and speed the outside wheel in corners - the tighter the corner, the greater the differential would be.

In any case, for most purposes in urban usage, an e-bike is adequate. Not great, but adequate. So, daily commute with your e-bike if it is under 15 miles, keep the gasser for fun. Nothing wrong with that idea.
 
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