My Titan / Hua Sheng heating system

[loquin]

ibdennyak - check out mpja.com for peltierr modules

You're right....in more ways than one. For one thing, the cylinder would have to have the fins removed, silicone grease applied to the heat sink, then the modules, and then fins added to the outside to get much of anything. Also, with the modules I have been playing with, the temp differential should be in the 250-300 degree F range to get close to optimum output. Using exhaust, the modules could be made as kind of a premuffler which would cool the gases, aiding in the muffler effect.

My findings so far say that it would work, but it would be a very expensive way to generate power. My module was about $70.00. I would need 4 of them in a series parallel arrangement to deliver 6 amps at 15.2 volts. And that is the optimul result.....toss in a little reality and it would be marginal as the old Lucas system on my old Beezer. I don't miss those banzai runs through the gears and at about 70+....+........+ the zener goes out along with the lights.

 

[ibdennyak]

Heh heh....love it when some of my off beat ideas generate so much interest. Anyway, I should put this in perspective a bit. About a year ago, I was installing a boat cover for a client. (Think a guy floating around in a half flat inflatable in mild chop at 20 degrees. Staple, screw, pump...repeat) The owner invited me into his cabin to thaw out. He had his ****erson diesel stove running, and on it there was a little fan sitting running along with no visible method of powering it. I copied the manufacturers name and power supply (since lost when my computer crashed) and collected some info on this thing. Received several nice e mails from the engineering dept of the company (also lost), and purchased one of their modules. The gist of it is that these things are rated by their input when used as a heating/cooling device. When used as a power supply the efficiency thing kicks in, and is much lower. Also, the one I used is designed for higher heat capabilities. According to the engineers, the less expensive ones would burn up in the usage I had in mind. Of course, these fans are designed to sit on a very hot surface (including a red hot stove pipe), so with some designing the other ones may work. Lots of variables and ideas left to investigate.

Now you got my interest up again....something to do while waiting for spring to come around. Thanks for the link Lou....I did check into some manufacturers, but not that one. Still think the idea is viable if it can be done economically. Also would be a way to heat or cool something. It will produce ice if powered to specs. May have to order some more of these and disappear for a while.

I see this is in the 4 stroke section....if it helps, I did use it on a Titan......

 

[chrisnbush]

Here is a real thermogenerator, one based on thermogenerator microchips that they have developed. This one is built for the end consumer in mind, you could insert it into the hot water outlet tubing from your water heater - it is available as a product I think, but still pretty much a concept product. I think the reason for this is that it only generates 5mWatts of power. But in case you are interested - I like it because I could pretty much plug it directly into my heating tube "device" -> http://www.micropelt.com/applications/te_power_probe.php

 

[ibdennyak]

Here is a real thermogenerator, one based on thermogenerator microchips that they have developed. This one is built for the end consumer in mind, you could insert it into the hot water outlet tubing from your water heater - it is available as a product I think, but still pretty much a concept product. I think the reason for this is that it only generates 5mWatts of power. But in case you are interested - I like it because I could pretty much plug it directly into my heating tube "device" -> http://www.micropelt.com/applications/te_power_probe.php

Ha, the concept is being developed. Plugging it into a water heater isn't the best idea IMO because it probably cost more to heat the water than what you would get out of it, but the idea bears merit. In your case, it would be perfect.....could even use it to regulate the temp of your suit somewhat. Good find.

I did notice it is being distributed by a company out of my old area...St Paul Minneeesota, developed by a company in Germany, (my background), and manufactured in......China........no comment.

 

[ibdennyak]

Ha ha ha, just noticed the censor got me in post 12.....had to laugh. Oh well, I misspelled it anyway. For those not familiar with marine stuff, it is a ****enson Diesel Stove..... The first four letters rhyme with Rick, but start with a D....and then enson. ****enson.

 

[HeadSmess]

how do you ppl cope? ice? snow? yuk!

anyways, im not critisicing...just maybe saving work.

as far as im aware...you need carb heating only.

they use VW's and other aircooled engines in antarctica cus of the freezing and the cracking of blocks... aircolled doesnt do it. though they do blank off the air ducts intake...

carb heat is used in planes etc to stop carb icing. carbs get colder than ambient. law of physics, that one.

if the cold is causing starting issues....have you considered those "thermo packs" ? the bags with the stuff in them, with a little metal disc...you click the disc, and the bag heats up... reusable over and over again. sport suppliers, etc...

i believe the chemical they contain is sodium thiosulphate... (or is that film developer?)


seems a lot easier than messing around with peltier modules etc( they chew up a LOT of current...)

 

[chrisnbush]

Well, it ain't the arctic. If there is snow on the road I don't go (although coming back I have occassionally come thru a snowstorm - a challenge, mostly as it is at night and further reduces visibility due to goggles and bicycle lighting). The coldest I think I came to work was 5 above 0, it takes me an hour (15 miles with some rough roads). I made studs on my tires using small nuts + washers + round head bolts in the tires, drilling holes and putting them in (round side of bolt in obviously). Had to mess up the threads on the nut side to keep the nuts from coming off due to tire rotation. Also I don't use nothing but slime 5x thick tubes anymore, haven't had a flat since (i cover the inside of the tire first with duct tape, then a strip of inner tube all the way around).

The heat is for ME, I keep the bike inside both sides of the trip - I started doing this when I was running the HT bike, as it is a MOTHER to start when it gets cold. Keep either 2 stroke or 4 stroke warm, starts up first pull out the door.

That being said, I know that a lot of the liquid to solid handwarmers on the market (see ebay for a slew of chinese handwarms, pokemon characters, for kids) are supersaturated solutions of sodium acetate - you dissolve a certain amount at boiling that wouldn't dissolve at RT. When you bring it to RT (room temp) it stays liquid unless you shock it, which starts crystal formation, which gives off heat. The commercial products have a metal "clicker" in them that provides the shock, I believe you can reliquify them in the microwave. Great, but they only last a max of an hour, and my trip with prep probably is a little more.

What I am a little excited about is that you can make the ingredients for the commercial dry hand warmers CHEAP (e.g. like "hot hands" product). Initially, as you can get 3 pairs at WalMart for 1.97 I thought that was pretty good. But check out the web, the ingredients in these are simply 1) iron powder 2) charcoal 3) table salt 4) vermiculite and 5) a small amount of water. Apparently, the oxidation of the iron powder is catalyzed by both the charcoal and salt, and this is what gives off the heat. The water gets sucked into the vermiculite so it is available for the reaction, but the whole thing stays dry. I think the venders stretch the ingredients to slow down the reaction by adding sawdust sometimes, this makes it last longer and not be as hot. The time frame of use is good for me - and when I am done with the crud I could put it in my compost heap (the salt should wash away, and the iron would be good for the garden).

There are recipes for this stuff on the web, and iron powder can be gotten cheap on ebay - i was thinking of just trying to crush up some charcoal briquettes

But not renewable really, although dirt cheap. My heater tube is using something that gets wasted anyway

Not sure this thread shouldn't be moved somewhere ? Well all about trying to stay warm on a bike anyway...



cb