atombikes
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atombikes' 2007 Whizzer NE5
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atombikes
Member
So is the spacer only required when retrofitting a WC engine with an NE head? Seems the carb mounting stud spacing would have to be the same between the WC and NE in order to run the same carb, but why the need for the spacer then?
lillback44
Member
I don't remember the exact details and don't have that motor anymore, but it was just a clearance issue. I still have a brand new wiring harness with all the components, cdi, igntion, keys, voltage reg. if your interested i'd let it go cheap.
atombikes
Member
sent you a message
lillback44
Member
$50
Sorry for the delayed response, just been extremely busy during the holidays.
I sent a response to your private message, and passed on as much information about the bike as possible.
Nelson purchased the Whizzer from me, and shortly after he became ill, and couldn't ride it. The motor is 100% stock and will need several modifications to become durable.
After looking at the pictures, it appears to be the version without the aluminum intake spacer and MUSHROOM lifters, and is your biggest problem. You must change lifters right away or serious damage can occur to the motor. You will also need to add an aluminum intake spacer to stop the gas from boiling in the carburetor. The spacer is needed to "cool" down the intake port and keep the carburetor below 110 degrees.
Do not order the spacer from anyone as it never fits correctly! They seem to have a problem in Taiwan drilling the hole in the spacer, and it never lines up with the port. It is best to simply take a piece of aluminum and drill you own holes to match the intake port and mounting holes. You can use a 1/4" thick piece of aluminum and make it larger to catch the air [like an extra fin] and works well [and cheap too].
Other issues you should consider are the cylinder & head. Some models used the "Lake Tahoe" head [meaning the cumbustion chamber looks like someone was drinking during the design process and looks like a run away lake]. The "Lake Tahoe" head is by far the worst of the heads used on the motors, and will reduce your top end by at least 5 MPH. This head can be modified to work well, but will need to be milled .065" and the chamber re-worked [valve pockets must be milled round as possible].
The cylinder is way too brittle and the head bolt threads will continue to loosen, and "shear". Cylinder must be annealed to soften the aluminum. Bake in oven for 3 hours @ 350 degrees. All valve parts must be removed prior to baking cylinder.
You also need to look at the valve springs, as some are stock WC-1, some are one of each, some are installed wrong, and less than 20% are installed correctly. If they are progressive springs [wound tighter at one end] the tight end goes against the valve guide [often one is installed on way and the other opposite].
I always deck the cylinder as you will see deep tool marks in the mating surface, and can cause head gasket failure. If it doesn't have a copper head gasket, it needs one. You should try to find a copper gasket that will fit your head pattern as close as possible as it can and will effect performance. Gasket currently offered from Taiwan are a very poor match, and I don't personally use them. Might try Woodstock Whizzer Works in Woodstock, IL for the copper head gasket [not one he purchased from Taiwan, but from US source]. I am only recommending the head gasket from him, not any other items, as you don't need the majority of his inventory to make your Whizzer work correctly.
An additional note concerning the mushroom lifters. Be VERY careful as the majority of available mushroom lifters are not made correctly [wrong metal]. Also the OEM mushroom lifters used in the later Whizzers can be upgraded [about $25.00 additional cost]to work , but never as well as the American made versions. The OEM versions aren't level at the base and are way too heavy, but can be corrected.
No need to change the 22 MM carburetor, just the main jet. You will need an #80 on a stock NE motor. An #82 if head modified, and an #84 if cylinder ported by me.
You will also need to address the crankcase oil vent system. If you need additional information on the vent design, PM me and I will tell you how to make your oil system from parts easily obtained in your area.
The automatic clutch is another issue, however I recommend you get the motor correct and durable, and then contact me about the clutch issues.
Hope this helps!
I sent a response to your private message, and passed on as much information about the bike as possible.
Nelson purchased the Whizzer from me, and shortly after he became ill, and couldn't ride it. The motor is 100% stock and will need several modifications to become durable.
After looking at the pictures, it appears to be the version without the aluminum intake spacer and MUSHROOM lifters, and is your biggest problem. You must change lifters right away or serious damage can occur to the motor. You will also need to add an aluminum intake spacer to stop the gas from boiling in the carburetor. The spacer is needed to "cool" down the intake port and keep the carburetor below 110 degrees.
Do not order the spacer from anyone as it never fits correctly! They seem to have a problem in Taiwan drilling the hole in the spacer, and it never lines up with the port. It is best to simply take a piece of aluminum and drill you own holes to match the intake port and mounting holes. You can use a 1/4" thick piece of aluminum and make it larger to catch the air [like an extra fin] and works well [and cheap too].
Other issues you should consider are the cylinder & head. Some models used the "Lake Tahoe" head [meaning the cumbustion chamber looks like someone was drinking during the design process and looks like a run away lake]. The "Lake Tahoe" head is by far the worst of the heads used on the motors, and will reduce your top end by at least 5 MPH. This head can be modified to work well, but will need to be milled .065" and the chamber re-worked [valve pockets must be milled round as possible].
The cylinder is way too brittle and the head bolt threads will continue to loosen, and "shear". Cylinder must be annealed to soften the aluminum. Bake in oven for 3 hours @ 350 degrees. All valve parts must be removed prior to baking cylinder.
You also need to look at the valve springs, as some are stock WC-1, some are one of each, some are installed wrong, and less than 20% are installed correctly. If they are progressive springs [wound tighter at one end] the tight end goes against the valve guide [often one is installed on way and the other opposite].
I always deck the cylinder as you will see deep tool marks in the mating surface, and can cause head gasket failure. If it doesn't have a copper head gasket, it needs one. You should try to find a copper gasket that will fit your head pattern as close as possible as it can and will effect performance. Gasket currently offered from Taiwan are a very poor match, and I don't personally use them. Might try Woodstock Whizzer Works in Woodstock, IL for the copper head gasket [not one he purchased from Taiwan, but from US source]. I am only recommending the head gasket from him, not any other items, as you don't need the majority of his inventory to make your Whizzer work correctly.
An additional note concerning the mushroom lifters. Be VERY careful as the majority of available mushroom lifters are not made correctly [wrong metal]. Also the OEM mushroom lifters used in the later Whizzers can be upgraded [about $25.00 additional cost]to work , but never as well as the American made versions. The OEM versions aren't level at the base and are way too heavy, but can be corrected.
No need to change the 22 MM carburetor, just the main jet. You will need an #80 on a stock NE motor. An #82 if head modified, and an #84 if cylinder ported by me.
You will also need to address the crankcase oil vent system. If you need additional information on the vent design, PM me and I will tell you how to make your oil system from parts easily obtained in your area.
The automatic clutch is another issue, however I recommend you get the motor correct and durable, and then contact me about the clutch issues.
Hope this helps!
jbcruisin
Member
Quenton I had to laugh reading that post because I've had to do all that stuff to my bike & other people's bikes (or get you to do it) over the years. It's true atom but once it's done they run fast & reliable for years. My 99 hits 50mph.
bluegoatwoods
Well-Known Member
I've always been impressed with Quenton's thorough knowledge of Whizzers and their various parts.
Now he shows up with some pertinent knowledge of this particular Whizzer. I guess wonders never do cease, huh?
In any case, I'm glad you got your bike running and have the info at your disposal to improve it. Looks like it's gonna be a good buy.
Now he shows up with some pertinent knowledge of this particular Whizzer. I guess wonders never do cease, huh?
In any case, I'm glad you got your bike running and have the info at your disposal to improve it. Looks like it's gonna be a good buy.
atombikes
Member
OK, so I had a little free time so I took the side cover off to expose the cam, and subsequently the lifters.
From the look of the cam position, I *think* the cam has already been advanced one tooth. Anyone disagree or have comments?
The cam stayed in the engine when I took the side cover off. I got lucky I think.
Anyway, on to the lifters. Bummer, they're not mushroom lifters. Good news is I don't think there is any damage to the cam (or the lifters from what I can tell)...
This is pretty much the best pic I can get of the cam lobe, but it seems smooth to the touch:
From the look of the cam position, I *think* the cam has already been advanced one tooth. Anyone disagree or have comments?
The cam stayed in the engine when I took the side cover off. I got lucky I think.
Anyway, on to the lifters. Bummer, they're not mushroom lifters. Good news is I don't think there is any damage to the cam (or the lifters from what I can tell)...
This is pretty much the best pic I can get of the cam lobe, but it seems smooth to the touch:
Attachments
Camshaft is advanced one tooth [many early NE motors were shipped with the camshaft advanced correctly]. Camshaft lobes look normal [good]. Camshaft is NE version.
If the lobes aren't damaged it simply means the lifters were softened to delay the failure. If you inspect the lifters closely you will notice the have been heated and you will be able to see where they were torched. Softening the lifters saves the camshaft lobes, however the lifters will soon destruct. Not sure why, but the exhaust lifter almost always wears out first, and it is important to avoid finger contact with the base [it can cut you like a razor blade].
This issue can lead to serious motor damage, and a lot of time trying to figure out why the motor appears to run worse with mileage. As the lifters wear, the clearance increases, and then the motor becomes hard to start, losses power, and is just weaker. The lifter clearance can be reset, and as the lifters wear more the problem returns. In extreme cases, the metal from the exhaust lifter falls into the camshaft bearing, locks it up, and BINGO, ya need a new motor [it can bust the crankcase, and or spin the bearing in the case].
The solution is simple, just get a good set of mushroom lifters. Please note I mentioned a "good" set. In my opinion, the lifters offered from Taiwan are far from a rating of "good", as they are too heavy, bases are seldom level, and they are too soft. They can be made to work well, however it requires machine work. They must be center drilled to reduce weight. The base must be ground level [not cut with a tool bit]. The mushroom must be reduced in height because of weight and can contact lifter bosses in some crankcases.
Please be careful when purchasing mushroom lifters, as some are really bad [lifter O.D. under-size, too long, too short, wrong base metal, ultra soft, etc].
Lifters should be made from Chromeoly or hardened steel. Some exotic metals don't survive and make poor lifters[magnesium., titanium, etc]. Remember the lifters must run in an aluminum crankcase, and some metals don't do well against aluminum.
The correct setup is hard mushroom lifters and the camshaft lobes not as hard.
Now the big question! Just how long can your run the motor with softened lifters? Some have defected in less than 15 miles because the lifters seized in the lifter bores, while others have lasted for a couple hundred miles [depends on how the lifters were torched, and how long]. It think most are in trouble in less than 100 miles.
Hope this information is helpful.
Have fun,
If the lobes aren't damaged it simply means the lifters were softened to delay the failure. If you inspect the lifters closely you will notice the have been heated and you will be able to see where they were torched. Softening the lifters saves the camshaft lobes, however the lifters will soon destruct. Not sure why, but the exhaust lifter almost always wears out first, and it is important to avoid finger contact with the base [it can cut you like a razor blade].
This issue can lead to serious motor damage, and a lot of time trying to figure out why the motor appears to run worse with mileage. As the lifters wear, the clearance increases, and then the motor becomes hard to start, losses power, and is just weaker. The lifter clearance can be reset, and as the lifters wear more the problem returns. In extreme cases, the metal from the exhaust lifter falls into the camshaft bearing, locks it up, and BINGO, ya need a new motor [it can bust the crankcase, and or spin the bearing in the case].
The solution is simple, just get a good set of mushroom lifters. Please note I mentioned a "good" set. In my opinion, the lifters offered from Taiwan are far from a rating of "good", as they are too heavy, bases are seldom level, and they are too soft. They can be made to work well, however it requires machine work. They must be center drilled to reduce weight. The base
Please be careful when purchasing mushroom lifters, as some are really bad [lifter O.D. under-size, too long, too short, wrong base metal, ultra soft, etc].
Lifters should be made from Chromeoly or hardened steel. Some exotic metals don't survive and make poor lifters[magnesium., titanium, etc]. Remember the lifters must run in an aluminum crankcase, and some metals don't do well against aluminum.
The correct setup is hard mushroom lifters and the camshaft lobes not as hard.
Now the big question! Just how long can your run the motor with softened lifters? Some have defected in less than 15 miles because the lifters seized in the lifter bores, while others have lasted for a couple hundred miles [depends on how the lifters were torched, and how long]. It think most are in trouble in less than 100 miles.
Hope this information is helpful.
Have fun,
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