Kick Starting NE5 w/o Battery

[go-rebels]

I'm having some difficulty kick-starting my NE5 without a battery after I replaced another bad spark plug after having the bike sit over the winter.

I'm dealing with the annual carb problems from sitting so long and am wondering if having the battery out of the circuit makes starting a little more difficult. Even instant start won't fire but periodically!

Thanks in advance!

 

[k-wad]

The battery being out of the circuit shouldn't matter.
As you say that you "replaced another bad spark plug", make sure you didn't pull any wires loose. The spark plug wire is basically held into the boot and coil by what look like sheet metal screws. It's possible one of those has been pulled out.

If you have good spark, then I'd next check the idle jet on the carb to make sure it isn't plugged up. A bristle from a wire barbeque brush works well for cleaning out clogged jets.

 

[go-rebels]

The battery being out of the circuit shouldn't matter.
As you say that you "replaced another bad spark plug", make sure you didn't pull any wires loose. The spark plug wire is basically held into the boot and coil by what look like sheet metal screws. It's possible one of those has been pulled out.

If you have good spark, then I'd next check the idle jet on the carb to make sure it isn't plugged up. A bristle from a wire barbeque brush works well for cleaning out clogged jets.

Spark appears good. Yup, I'll try spraying some gumout up through the jet to clear it out. I don't like to brush fine carb holes for fear of embedding a piece of the brush into the passages.

But it makes no sense that instant start won't fire unless the spark is weak or intermittent.

So, the entire current through the low voltage end of the coil is derived from the magneto? I better tighten up those belts then!

 

[go-rebels]

OK, this is getting frustrating now... I removed the carb and re-cleaned all the jets that I could find including removing and resetting the two adjusting screws facing outboard on the right side of the bike keeping them in the identical position they were when the bike was running fine last Fall. The bike will not start with instant start rolling over the left pedal once (as it used to) but requires me using instant start and pedaling hard from the seat. Once the bike fires, no amount of choke will keep the engine running.

Gas is from a sealed 3 month old batch of winter fuel (more volatile than summer gas). The tank, lines and carb were all drained and refilled.

The fuel in the bowl appears to be at the correct level just a bit down from the top of the lower bowl when the bottom is removed.

Is there an idle circuit within the carb that I'm missing? Does the fuel for the idle pass through the main jet?

Can the spark be so weak that it will only fire 'instant start'?

 

[MotorbikeMike]

Hi one trick is after you have kicked it a few times pull out the spark plug (DEAD COLD ONLY) and look to see if it is wet with gas, if so, you have gas. Another thing is NGK makes and excellent replacement plug that is far better it is Iridium, the one you need ends in EIX I forget the front part, I can check after work.
NE's CAN lose spark thru the keyswitch from bad contacts, and can lose spark thru the kill switch, both of which can be temporarily disconnected for testing.

A missing battery will NOT stop NE from firing, BUT a shorted out Battery might, disconnect the leads.

Yeah belts are crucial to be turning the engine,. not slipping.

Did you clean the needle, and the main jet (in the long brass tube above float bowl) inside?

Disconnecting key switch eliminates that possibility and is easy with tank off. Kill switch can be disconnected behind the fork cover on headlight.

Let us know,
Mike

 

[go-rebels]

Hi one trick is after you have kicked it a few times pull out the spark plug (DEAD COLD ONLY) and look to see if it is wet with gas, if so, you have gas. Another thing is NGK makes and excellent replacement plug that is far better it is Iridium, the one you need ends in EIX I forget the front part, I can check after work.
NE's CAN lose spark thru the keyswitch from bad contacts, and can lose spark thru the kill switch, both of which can be temporarily disconnected for testing.

A missing battery will NOT stop NE from firing, BUT a shorted out Battery might, disconnect the leads.

Yeah belts are crucial to be turning the engine,. not slipping.

Did you clean the needle, and the main jet (in the long brass tube above float bowl) inside?

Disconnecting key switch eliminates that possibility and is easy with tank off. Kill switch can be disconnected behind the fork cover on headlight.

Let us know,
Mike

Thx for the quick response Mike.

Belts are tight. Nothing is slipping. Battery is disconnected and removed from the circuit. Spark seems fine jumping the wire to the head through a screw inserted in the socket.

I specifically cleaned the main jet and needle. I can see straight through the main jet hole and can confirm that it is clear.

Is the main jet the idle circuit too?

I'm at a bit of a disadvantage checking the plug as I'm running a one-off custom head from Quenton and the plug exits to the right side of the bike near the frame rail. I have to slightly rotate the motor to the right to gain access using using a deep well socket. But I can do it... My thought is that I'm not getting gas but I need to confirm that with your test.

Can you please give me a little more detail on how to bypass the kill/key switches? That will be my next step after confirming a wet plug.

 

[k-wad]

There is a separate pilot jet located next to the main jet. The idle air circuit is controlled by the screw closest to the air filter side of the carb.
In this pic I swiped from the interwebs, the pilot jet is the one on top....


Make sure it is clean also as if clogged it will keep the motor from starting.
After you make sure the pilot jet is clog free, screw the idle air screw all the way in, then back it out 1 and 1/2 turns (thats a rough in and should get you started. Once it is running, it will need to be dialed in).

 

[go-rebels]

There is a separate pilot jet located next to the main jet.

Ahhh... thanks so muck 'k'! I know that I did not specifically flush out that circuit from the underside so I'll remove the carb and specifically clean that port before I try anything else.

Another small issue... my throttle seems to be 'sticking' a little, that is, the cylindrical piston within the carb seems to 'stick' in a part/full throttle condition (up) as if the spring is too week.

Is it recommended to lightly lubricate the cylinder with a light oil like WD40 before inserting the throttle piston back into the carb body?

 

[k-wad]

The pilot jet is removable with a properly sized flathead screwdriver. Remove it before cleaning it so that if something is clogging it up, it won't end up in the little passages in the carb itself.


I've had the same sticking throttle problem on my bike.

Check the throttle cable where it enters the top of the carb. Mine was hitting the bottom of the gas tank, causing the cable kink.
I remedied this by lowering the slack adjustment for the cable at the top of the carb (the little nut under the black rubber boot on top of the carb lid where the cable goes through) all the way down, then re-adjusted the slack out of the cable at the throttle end. This gave me just enough room to keep the cable from binding.
Another fix is to add a few washers under the flange on the tank where it attaches to the frame to lift it up a bit.


If it's not the cable binding, pull the cap off of your carb, and slide the piston up and down in it's bore, slowly, by hand. There should be little to no resistance.

If you feel any resistance, look for a burr, dirt, or scratches. Any burrs or scratches in the piston bore, once located can be smoothed out with a mild scotch brite pads and light rubbing (go easy on it, or you could make things worse).
Resist the urge to polish the piston itself as it has a non-stick coating on it.

 

[go-rebels]

Thx again 'k'. I did not know there was adjustment on the throttle cable... I'll try to 'tune' that tonight too.

In addition, with the carb off and idle pilot jet removed, I'll check the possible binding of the piston in it's bore.

Another update tomorrow...