Substitute for 415 chain- #41

[Ron Marquis (Phx Az)]

Not wanting to wait for a half link for my 415 chain and hearing from others that a #41 chain works fine, I went down to Tractor Supply Company and bought a 10 foot length of #41 for $14 and a half link (actually a package of three) for $4.

Long story short, it works great! The pitch is the same 1/2". The roller diameter is the same 5/16". The side plates are slightly thinner, but the outside width of the chain is the same as 415. There is about 1/16" wider inside measurement, but appears not to be a problem at all.

To me, there are some advantages-

1. You can get #41 anywhere and you can get #41 half links and master links anywhere. If you don't have a close TSC, try any small engine shop or anyplace that sells minibikes or go-karts.

2. 10' of #41 cost about $14 (no shipping because you can get it anywhere). I looked at several of the usual suspects and most charged about $20 for a 59" 415. One retailer charged about $15, but it is still only 59". For the cost of a master link, you can get 2 chains out of the 10', $14, #41 easy. If you use 2 different sprockets, you can have a ready made chain for each.

3. Worried about the strength? A #41 has an average tensile strength of 2,000 lbs. A 415 has an average tensile strength of 1,600 lbs.
http://www.azusaeng.com/chain/mcyclchn.html

4. I have heard the 415s (the ones that come with the kits) stretch quite a bit. I have never heard this about standard #41 and it has been used on minibikes and go-karts for generations.

In case you cannot tell- I'm a big fan of #41.

The 1/16 inch extra internal width proves well serving as it allows for slight misalignment of gearing. Also allowing for vibrations which account for stretching the 415. PS: 10 ft sections sold by O'Reilly Auto runs $18+.

 

[Mullaly]

Just want to say thanks ya'll for savin my ass with this thread.. Shoutout to ten years ago.. Lol. I live in canada (eh!) and home depot didnt have the 41 in stock.. Tractor supply is about a half hour drive from me but i dont have a passport. Picked up ten feet and four master links for 27$. Cheaper than a 415 and no wait. held up fine going up a logging road on the mountain.. Left my buddy pedaling at the bottom! as for the bit about chains stretching and whatnot.. Well..
This bad boy came pre-stretched

 

[Mullaly]

Chainis DON'T stretch, the chain and sprocket wear and that is where the Loose Chain comes from.

There seems to be a discrepancy between your claims and what the package says.
Im gonna trust the label on this one.

 

[CrazyDan]

There seems to be a discrepancy between your claims and what the package says.
Im gonna trust the label on this one.

You are replying to a dead man that was very much correct. A chain stretches from pin wear and adds slack to a chain. A worn sprocket wears out a chain really fast, giving it extra slack. Give respect bro. Your china label is wrong.

 

[Mullaly]

You could be right. My rudimentary understanding of metallurgy is that under tension, malleable materials thin out, and elongate. If you've ever watched a jewlery chain being made, a solid piece of metal is subject to extreme force, which causes it to thin and lengthen. I'm sure youre right in regards to roller and sprocket wear being aggrivating factors in chain slackening, though if we're strictly reffering to the elongation of metal under extreme force.. It's really suprising - in any avenue in life- to hear someone say it cant happen. But hey. Ive got a ninth grade education, so what do i know. Thanks for clarifying and lessening my ignorance. I get a little bigoted when i hear people talk absolutes. We are all products of our own limited understanding, and i came to this forum to learn- so cheers, and hats off to the dearly departed. No ill intent.

 

[Vikingimike01]

If you think about it, chain's don't get to any kind of temperature that would make the metal in them be moldable / bendable. It doesn't really go under a high pressure. And there isn't a very tough machinery made to push and extrude it.

They start with hot rolling the wire, and while it's still hot, and moldable, they pull it trough one of these.

The wires you know in electrical compontents get drawn trough 20-30 times for the perfect width.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

The #41 chain is used for tractor implements and garage doors. It is meant for the extremely high load in these applications. It is actually quite unnecessary to use such a heavy chain on a bicycle with a tiny engine where the chain moves fast with very light load.
The #415 chain that comes in the kit, like the nuts and bolts, is made from terribly low quality metal and so I wouldn't doubt it can literally stretch (though I never tried it). Any high quality chain will not literally stretch on a MB. You could use the thinnest of bicycle chains and it would be easily strong enough in tension to not stretch or snap from the load. The only risk is it could be easier to twist the lighter chain if things malfunction (which is your responsibility) and the damaged chain would be weakened.

 

[Vikingimike01]

Original shimano chain for 6-7-8 speed casettes? Would that work? I just got it and holy s**t it's harder to bend the pins then on the stock 415 chain. I could hardly get the master link on!

 

[CrazyDan]

I'm using kmc k710 kool chain from my output sprocket to jackshaft input and from jackshaft output to chainring, and kmc z610 from the chainring to my nexus 3 speed hub. 0 issues with my chains.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

Original shimano chain for 6-7-8 speed casettes? Would that work? I just got it and holy sh*t it's harder to bend the pins then on the stock 415 chain. I could hardly get the master link on!

I haven't tried the 3/32" chain, I skipped that size and went straight from a KMC K510 (#410 bmx chain) to the KMC X9-95 (11/128" light 9 speed chain) with the reusable quick links that can be separated and joined with a SHOELACE. The lateral flexibility of these multi-speed chains will require a carefully designed guide system to ensure that the chain does not derail.

There is also single speed 3/32" chain for cruisers, bmx racing, track and bicycle trials. KMC K810-SL being the gold standard, I believe; but there are many other options.

You'll need to have narrow sprockets to run narrow chain of course. I originally narrowed my engine sprocket to 0.120" to fit the 0.125" rollers on the 1/8" bmx chain, but then I had to do it again to fit the 11/128" chain, and made the engine sprocket teeth 2mm with 1.8mm tips. My rear sprockets were already suitable for the narrow chain.

I should add there was nothing wrong with the #410 bmx chain! Its a lot lighter than the #415 kit chain, and a decent quality KMC K510 nickel plated is inexpensive.