2017 California Vehicle Code CVC "Motorized Bicycle"

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Do you need a motorcycle license to drive a Vespa?
To operate a motorized scooter you must be at least 16 years old and carry either an instruction permit or driver's license. If you choose to ride a moped that can reach 30 MPH, you're going to need a Class M2 or M1 license.

Trick question? The answer is Yes, in California you legally need a motorcycle license or instruction permit to operate a Vespa.

 

Trick question? The answer is Yes, in California you legally need a motorcycle license or instruction permit to operate a Vespa.

I bring it up because of its operating speeds, the cut off in California is between 28 and 30 mph as to the necessity of licensing.

There's a lot of ANGLES to look at the laws from, as cops aren't all looking at it from the same angle when laws are enforced.

That's why I pose multiple scenarios - identify the common threads, determine the intention of the law, what is the minimum requirements to operate what.

There's a lot of faceted variables which allow riders to have no license! They aren't listed so clearly as blue day sky, but it's still a real thing to ride unlicensed.

No trick questions - I'm trying to answer HOW instead of the Average "yes or no".
 
I'm not sure how you think trying to meld the new eBike law (312.5) together with the revised Moped law (406) is somehow going to get you out of needing a license to operate a mb/moped. The way the old 406 (a)/(b) was written (a) for moped and (b) for ebikes was great for confusing the leos. I've always maintained a M1 endorsement on my class A - X license so license was never a problem, but I had used the old 406(a)/(b) to talk my way out proof of insurance on several occasions over the years.

I sort of miss the old 406 for the reason i mentioned above however the great thing about the new 312.5 ebike law is you can build a class 3 ebike, (which I did) and ride 35mph all day long (which I do) without worrying about getting pulled over and getting ticketed for exceeding the 30mph max speed imposed on the gas bikes.

You can hunt around through all the whats wheres whys and hows you like but at the end of the day Calififornia law still requires a drivers license (or learners permit) to legally operate a gas powered motorized bicycle (Moped) on public roadways, period.
 
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I'm not sure how you think trying to meld the new eBike law (512.5) together with the revised Moped law (406) is somehow going to get you out of needing a license to operate a mb/moped. The way the old 406 (a)/(b) was written (a) for moped and (b) for ebikes was great for confusing the leos. I've always maintained a M1 endorsement on my class A - X license so license was never a problem, but I had used the old 406(a)/(b) to talk my way out proof of insurance on several occasions over the years.

I sort of miss the old 406 for the reason i mentioned above however the great thing about the new 512.5 ebike law is you can build a class 3 ebike, (which I did) and ride 35mph all day long (which I do) without worrying about getting pulled over and getting ticketed for exceeding the 30mph max speed imposed on the gas bikes.

You can hunt around through all the whats wheres whys and hows you like but at the end of the day Calififornia law still requires a drivers license (or learners permit) to legally operate a gas powered motorized bicycle (Moped) on public roadways, period.

Because I called CHP about AB1096 and was informed that the intent of the law is that bicycles in the bike lane have to travel 28mph, that was their opinion on motorized bicycles. No concern for anything but that speed.

That I respect their opinion and consider that perspective, it makes some legitimate common sense as to the riders' operations of our bicycles on the roadways.

That perspective tells me, if you want to be in the bike lane, keep it under 30mph. If you want a full lane, get your license and a plate. That's pretty cut and dry.

Where the bike lane stops and the roadway starts seems to be the grey area.

As I said though, I'm more interested in compiling the information to explain HOW someone can operate without a license, for example.

Out of state licenses can grant that, permits can grant that, electric can grant that, quadricycles can grant that if you are disabled, exempt registration can grant that. I can tune a bike around the concept of no license.
 
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Because I called CHP about AB1096 and was informed that the intent of the law is that bicycles in the bike lane have to travel 28mph, that was their opinion on motorized bicycles. No concern for anything but that speed.

Your local CHP may think so but AB1096 had absolutely nothing to do with bicycles traveling 28mph in the bike lane.

Motorized bicycles (mopeds) can travel 30mph in the bike lane all day long provided it is allowed by local ordinance and does not exceed the posted speed limit.

Electric bicycles are also not limited to 28mph in the bike lane but must not exceed the posted speed limit.

So you see 28mph has nothing whatsoever to do with operating in a bike lane, gas, electric, hybred or otherwise.

You can read more about the original intent of AB1096 by going to the link below and clicking on the 4/24/14 Assembly Transportation toward the bottom of the page.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1096#

According to the author, "California's regulations of electric bicycles are outdated. Modern electric motor-assisted bicycles are designed to behave almost exactly like a regular bicycle - just easier to pedal - buy they are regulated as 'motorized bicycles' with restrictions that bar their use on most bicycle paths. Ambiguous language in the description of electric bikes creates confusion for manufacturers and consumers in this fast-growing market. AB 1096 would create improved definitions of electric bikes and appropriately permit more access to trails and paths."

So by doing away with the old "motorized bicycle" (powered by electric) (b) part of CVC406 and giving eBikes their own vehicle code (312.5) with the new definition of "Electric Bicycles", Class 1 & 2 can be operated on bicycle paths without having to change thousands of these: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/...8140_6ac0fa0b084f460abab218762aa3f667~mv2.jpg
 
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Your local CHP may think so but AB1096 had absolutely nothing to do with bicycles traveling 28mph in the bike lane.

Motorized bicycles (mopeds) can travel 30mph in the bike lane all day long provided it is allowed by local ordinance and does not exceed the posted speed limit.

Electric bicycles are also not limited to 28mph in the bike lane but must not exceed the posted speed limit.

So you see 28mph has nothing whatsoever to do with operating in a bike lane, gas, electric, hybred or otherwise.

You can read more about the original intent of AB1096 by going to the link below and clicking on the 4/24/14 Assembly Transportation toward the bottom of the page.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1096#

According to the author, "California's regulations of electric bicycles are outdated. Modern electric motor-assisted bicycles are designed to behave almost exactly like a regular bicycle - just easier to pedal - buy they are regulated as 'motorized bicycles' with restrictions that bar their use on most bicycle paths. Ambiguous language in the description of electric bikes creates confusion for manufacturers and consumers in this fast-growing market. AB 1096 would create improved definitions of electric bikes and appropriately permit more access to trails and paths."

So by doing away with the old "motorized bicycle" (powered by electric) (b) part of CVC406 and giving eBikes their own vehicle code (312.5) with the new definition of "Electric Bicycles", Class 1 & 2 can be operated on bicycle paths without having to change thousands of these: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/...8140_6ac0fa0b084f460abab218762aa3f667~mv2.jpg

And you're totally right about that.

Personally I've been following major manufacturer products that have been designed around the existing laws.
Such as the http://newatlas.com/bolt-m-1-electric-bike/38639/

Just what I've noticed is there have been slowly motordrivencycle laws adapting onto motorized bicycles, however new revolutionary products haven't been happening for us. Its the same kit the soviets had, and fewer accessories available.

Can you source the information relating to the speed limit of the bike path?
I thought it was listed as 28 when the operator is on an ebike.
 
I don't recall seeing any legal info relating to speed limits on bike paths but I'll poke around and see what I can find.

I ride my electric bicycles on bike paths all over my area and to be honest I've never seen a speed limit sign. I usually keep my speed down to 10-15mph even when no one is around and when I roll up on a group of people I'll slow to a crawl, make sure they see me pedaling and give a polite greeting as I pass by.

Class 1 & 2 Electric Bicycles (eBikes) are allowed to operate on bike paths where Class 3 is generally not allowed unless local ordinance permits. Class 3 eBikes are required to have the motor stop assisting once the speed reaches 28mph, however like Class 1 & 2 there is no limit on maximum speed attained by pedaling and gravity. Motorized bicycles (mopeds), gas or electric, are also not allowed on bike paths.

21207.5. (a) Notwithstanding Sections 21207 and 23127 of this code, or any other law, a motorized bicycle or class 3 electric bicycle shall not be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the local authority or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over the path or trail permits, by ordinance, that operation.
(b) The local authority or governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over a bicycle path or trail, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail, may prohibit, by ordinance, the operation of a class 1 or class 2 electric bicycle on that path or trail.

Funny you should mention the Monday M1. I've been following it from the beginning back when they were Bolt. It's a great product but I have to laugh at how they claim eBike status here in California. They designed around a 5500 watt 40 mph setup then added a limiting switch (econo mode) to drop the power and speed back down to fit the Class 2 (20 mph assist) ebike law. The reason I get a chuckle out of this is I designed my first ebike the same way, 6000W 40mph with a 3 speed rocker switch on the bars. Of course I had to make the necessary modifications when the new law went into effect. The 1000w label on my motor was replaced with a 750w label and the 3 speed switch moved from the handebar to under the seat.

Link to the Monday M1 for anyone interested: https://mondaymotorbikes.com/

Like you said not much evolution happening on the gas bike side other than 4 stroke kits. 4 stokes tend to fly under the radar better due to their lower noise levels and lack of smoke trailing from the exhaust. Still gas bikes are generally frowned on while electric bikes give that warm fuzzy saving the earth feeling and are welcomed with open arms by all, including law enforcement.

If you live in Cali and can afford to go electric I strongly reccomend it. For starters the driver license and proof of insurance problems experianced with operating a gas bike instantly become a non issue. Riding electric opens up new areas to ride, trails, bike paths etc. And for those of us that like to push the limit and operate in those grey areas it's much easier to do on an electric then gas. Law enforcement is much more receptive to electric as well as much less knowledgable to the laws and how they apply to your bike should you get pulled over and questioned.

Link below to a good read on why law enforcement tend to leave eBikes alone. Funny the article mentions Motoped which just happend to be what I used for my first electric conversion.

https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/05/16/silence-infidel-the-real-reason-police-ignore-ebikes/
 
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